Cigar Geek Reviews (realistic reviews)

Started by DonM, 05/03/2009 07:01 AM

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DonM

OK , CG, I fisrt of f I like the site, and come in here quite often.  It has some great information, jokes and of course the reviews, which segways right into my point this morning.  

  When I am submitting a review on a cigar, I try to be as honest and respectful of the manufacturer, the stick, etc.  A bundled cigar, while it may be a decent smoke typically is notgoing to get a 5 star rating.  Usng the Casa Magna as an unusual example, it got #1 of the year with CA.  While a great smoke, I do not see where it was worthy of the #1 rating.

  So this morning, I get up with my coffee, and turn on Cigar geeks.  I am checking out reviews and see that some are not realistic.  In order to maintain the integrity of the site, reviews should be consistent and realistic, understanding everyones palate is different.   I am sure there are some hardcore cigar guys in here that would agree.  So, a Padilla Miami, one of the more sought after boutique cigars, gets a 3.5, A  Pepin JJ maduro gets a 4 , and the winner today with a 5 rating is the Vegas de Fonseca Toro with a rating of 5!

  I know everyone has their own opinion, and I have mine.  I ran out of Padilla Miamis, think Ill go smoke a Signature 1932 Robusto.  Its gotta be at least a 3.5 as well.  What do you think?

"The Curmudgeon"













lowpro75

This is a user driven opinion site and like you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.  If you want to start to control ratings based on what experts think it kind of defeats the point.  I admit I'm no expert.  When I smoke a cigar sometimes I put a lot of thought into the rating and description and sometimes not so much.  Usually I come to a number of stars in my head as I smoke it.  Of course everything is based on my personal preference, I don't know any other way to do it.  There may even be some bias in there based on how much I paid, expectations and or what kind of value I think I got, which I often put into the review and the rating.  Take my opinion for what it is worth, a guy who spends his hard earned money on cigars and is trying to figure out where to spend his next buck.  I don't take advertising and the manufactures give me no money to influence my reviews.  So to your point of being realistic, this is as real as it gets.  
Guru of Sensitivity.  

The Herf of Havertown.

Christopher62

#2

Well said Lowpro...

I think it's subjective, Don... Five guys can all smoke the exact same cigar and each person may have an experience unique to them. For that matter I myself have smoked several of the same cigar and had a slightly different experience each time, depending on a number of factors such as if and what I have eaten, what I may be drinking, the time of day, my general mood, etc. Also, keep in mind premium cigars are a hand-rolled commodity and as such are subject to the whims and vagaries of the human touch - every once in a while you get that random dud that has no draw or doesn't burn well.

Additionally, the more time I spend in here the more I get to know the other members' likes and dislikes. Some of the Geeks are harsh critics and others are more forgiving. And you know what? I love it. I look forward to everyone's opinions, whether I agree with them or not. And I feel that that is the true integrity of this site.

Good day sirs!

~Christopher

junglepete

Well, I think the word realistic is subjective right from the start. Everyones realistic is different to begin with. I feel the cigar itself is not the only criteria involved when reviewing and that there can be so many variables, as mentioned recently in a previous thread, that affect the final outcome: the cigar itself being hand rolled plays some part in the differences, the number of cigars smoked that day by the reviewer may have an affect on their taste, the drink of choice, the atmosphere and weather, the surroundings and company, the mood of the reviewer etc.

I guess when it comes to reviews I realize that the review is not gospel and pleasantly reflects the personality of the reviewer as well as the quality of the cigar...and I'm okay with that. If I see a fellow member give a high rating to a cigar that I gave a low rating to, I am still happy that they enjoyed the smoke so much and took the time to write about it. Anyway, that's my take on the whole review thing.
Guru of Frugality

"It is your decisions, not your conditions that shape your life."  ~Tony Robbins~

Hot Stuff x

I don't really pay much attention to how many stars  someone gave a reviewed cigar (unless it is a one or five star smoke).   Rather, I read the full review (or several reviews of the cigar if available) and find out what the reviewer thought of the cigar, which provides some insight as to why it got he rating it did. 

Tastes vary, and the best cigar is the one you like the best.  After spending some time reading reviews on this site, you will find that some of the fellow Cigar Geeks have the same tastes in cigars you have--the reviews that these folks submit should be the ones you trust the most to have an opinion you're likely to share.

LES
Guru of Morning Calm and Oriental Wisdom


_________________
"So I feel like I've cheated on a wife or long time lover... this is your damn fault Les, you sent me that first Tatuaje!!!!!!  You introduced us!!"  - Bob Cordell

"You got me started on both the Liberty and the Christian's Blend, Les. Now my kids won't be able to go to college." - Brlesq

abdel

QuoteHot Stuff x - 5/3/2009  9:17 AM

I don't really pay much attention to how many stars  someone gave a reviewed cigar (unless it is a one or five star smoke).   Rather, I read the full review (or several reviews of the cigar if available) and find out what the reviewer thought of the cigar, which provides some insight as to why it got he rating it did. 

Tastes vary, and the best cigar is the one you like the best.  After spending some time reading reviews on this site, you will find that some of the fellow Cigar Geeks have the same tastes in cigars you have--the reviews that these folks submit should be the ones you trust the most to have an opinion you're likely to share.

This.

Actually, I usually don't read any reviews until after I've had one, that was when I do write a review it's entirely my opinion and I'm not trying to force myself to tasted supposed nuances in the cigar or wondering why it's not behaving as it might have for another user.

mountedshriner

Quotelowpro75 - 5/3/2009  6:44 AM

This is a user driven opinion site and like you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.  

I whole heartedly agree. I am a novice compared to many of the members on this site. However, I rate a cigar the way I see it. Taste, flavor, construction, price, smokeability, draw, ash, all those aspects come into play. But it is an absolutely subjective issue. I know people who swear by machine made cigars, will smoke nothing else and think they are a quality smoke. You couldn't give them an Opux X in trade for their Dutch Master panatella. You just can't put parameters on cigar critiques. I personally never smoked a Gurkha or a RP that I thought was great, but have friends who swear by one or both. I am not a fan of Pepin either but many memebrs here at CG love them. I guess what I am trying to say Don, is I don't agree w/you but I sure hope you continue to post your ideas and opinions. It's what makes this such a great site. The diversity of view points is great. Thanks for the post Don. :shades:
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" -- Benjamin Franklin


DonM

Seems I sruck a raw nerve, which was not my intent.  While everyone does have the right to their own opinion, and have different tastes in cigars, one of the points, while not spelled out, was that in giving a review, a 5 rating should be reserved for an outstanding smoke.  Used loosely, a 5 rating means nothing.  By the way, for some reason, the search reviews tab isnt working for me now

    :confused:

"The Curmudgeon"













junglepete

QuoteDonM - 5/3/2009  12:07 PM

Seems I sruck a raw nerve, which was not my intent.  While everyone does have the right to their own opinion, and have different tastes in cigars, one of the points, while not spelled out, was that in giving a review, a 5 rating should be reserved for an outstanding smoke.  Used loosely, a 5 rating means nothing.  By the way, for some reason, the search reviews tab isnt working for me now

    :confused:

I don't think you struck a raw nerve Don, most of us are just passionate about the topic I suppose. I really don't feel like there are a whole lot of 5 star reviews given here. To me, they actually seem to be quite rare and most people here tend to be more conservative about giving 5 stars, including myself. I wonder now about how many 5 star reviews are there are actually are in the 2500 + reviews on the site. What percentage of all the reviews do you feel are 5 star loosely given reviews?

By the way, that tab is not working for me either.
Guru of Frugality

"It is your decisions, not your conditions that shape your life."  ~Tony Robbins~

lowpro75

I appreciate the topic and like a good debate.  I look forward to others weighing in as well.  All in good fun! :biggrin:
Guru of Sensitivity.  

The Herf of Havertown.

Bob Cordell

I've never gave a 5 star rating in the whole time I've been here. I consider a 5 star to be something so exceptional that nothing can match it. I only give my favorite cigar a 4.5...what if I find one I like better?

I did give another 4.5 recently though, a Belinda Black which is my new equal to the ERDM...I think...


Blasphemy?
"I bet there's rich folks eating in fancy dining cars,
They're probably drinkin' coffee and smoking big cigars"

SenorPablo

No worries Don.  I dont think anyone is taking it the wrong way.  You bring up some good points for good discussion.  I think 5 stars should be reserved for the very finest of smokes as well.  

Also, folks, I think the Reviews search is fixed now.

-Paul
Twenty years ago we had Steve Jobs, Johnny Cash and Bob Hope.  Now we have no jobs, no cash and no hope. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die!

Ken Kelley

No raw nerves here, Don.  When I first started hanging around this forum I didn't have a whole lot of cigar experience.  I used the reviews to point me towards cigars everybody seemed to enjoy so I gave some of them a try.  Some I enjoyed, others I didn't.  After a while I found that I came in pretty close agreement with the preferences of certain individuals.  Whenever I saw they enjoyed a particular cigar I hadn't tried yet I was more inclined to give it a shot myself.  Most times I enjoyed the cigar just as much as they had but once in awhile I thought they were complete morons for rating it so high.  Personal preference plays a big part in this whole business it seems.  Fer instance, I have never found a Rocky Patel I've truly enjoyed or a Padilla either.  Personally, I would rate a $2 TNT Padron alternative higher than either of those two because I really enjoy them.  I can't think of anybody on this forum who is a cigar snob so you can pretty much count on them giving an honest evaluation of what they really enjoy.
Guru of Benign Curmudgeonliness, Imperfect Patience, and Reluctant Toleration.



nukbucko

#13
Does price and value affect the ratings? or should i say your rating?
"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."  -Some Dude I don't Know

mountedshriner

I think you have started a great thread here Don. I have rated two cigars w/a 5 since I have been reviewing them. However after having smoked a lot more cigars since those reviews, I would have rated only one of them a five. There are also some cigars I have rated 4.5 and in retrospect I should have given a 4, even a 3.5 in one case. Experience, the foundation of life. Needless to say the more one smokes the more experience they acquire and I think a lot of the CG's would agree w/me unless they were very experienced herfers when they got here. I know my tastes will change over time and what is great today may be just good next year. However, I was sincere when I said I hope you continue to post your reviews and opinions. No nerve struck here Don, I really enjoy the multiple responses. Keep it up buddy.

Dennis :smoker:
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" -- Benjamin Franklin


Ken Kelley

Quotemountedshriner - 5/3/2009  6:53 PM

I think you have started a great thread here Don. I have rated two cigars w/a 5 since I have been reviewing them. However after having smoked a lot more cigars since those reviews, I would have rated only one of them a five. There are also some cigars I have rated 4.5 and in retrospect I should have given a 4, even a 3.5 in one case. Experience, the foundation of life. Needless to say the more one smokes the more experience they acquire and I think a lot of the CG's would agree w/me unless they were very experienced herfers when they got here. I know my tastes will change over time and what is great today may be just good next year. However, I was sincere when I said I hope you continue to post your reviews and opinions. No nerve struck here
Don, I really enjoy the multiple responses. Keep it up buddy.

Dennis :smoker:

One of the nice things about the reviews in this forum is that you always have the option of going back to a previous review and editing the content (only your own).  That way, if you change your mind about a rating it's not locked in stone.  I've noticed that several people have given an initial rating then come back later, maybe after the smokes have aged a bit longer, and modified their initial impression.  Mostly I've noticed they make an additional note to reflect the added info rather than just change the review.  I like that because it lets me know that a particular cigar either does or doesn't improve with aging.
Guru of Benign Curmudgeonliness, Imperfect Patience, and Reluctant Toleration.



junglepete

Quotenukbucko - 5/3/2009  6:14 PM

Does price and value affect the ratings? or should i say your rating?

Sometimes they do for me...especially when there is some real good value going on. I am more likely to give a half star for cheaper cigar that is good than I am to deduct a half star for a cigar that I feel is over priced. In fact, I have never deducted for a poor value cigar.
Guru of Frugality

"It is your decisions, not your conditions that shape your life."  ~Tony Robbins~

BlackIrish

First, great thread, and no raw nerves here.

Second, I understand your point.  But to state the obvious, these reviews are inherently subjective.  And I think that what you've noticed is that -- at least in non-blind reviews -- people tend to rate cigars by how well they match their expectations.  From those to whom much is given, much is expected.  If I pull out a house brand alternative and it's well constructed, burns well, and shows more complexity than I'd expect from a house brand, and, indeed, as much complexity as one of the better premiums I've smoked, I'd be inclined to give it 4-5 stars, because it was much better than expected.  If, on the other hand, I smoked an uber-premium and it has any flaws in construction or has something less than sublime flavor and transcendental complexity, I'm inclined not to give it a 5, and maybe only a 4, because it didn't meet my expectations.  Now, if I smoked the first, surprisingly good bundled cigar and the slightly disappointing uber-premium blind, in a head-to-head smoke off, I might rate the uber-premium more highly, and perhaps much more highly (but, since it's a blind tasting, maybe not . . .).  

Thus, two cigars with the same rating -- even from the same reviewer -- can't be considered equal, simply by virtue of the equal rating.   I don' t mean to pick on anyone by name, but just to take up your example, I wonder if Scott (Texlewee) would tell you that he'd rather smoke the Vegas de Fonsecas that he just gave 5 stars and not the Opus X Reserva de Chateau that he gave 4.5 stars.  Maybe he would.

That's why the narrative description is so much more important to me than the rating.  I try to explain why rated it where I did, and what standard I measured it against.  Sometimes I'll say that this was a surprisingly good cigar for its price point, and therefore I've bumped it up half a star.  Sometimes I'll say that a super-premium cigar was a bit disappointing, and therefore I've bumped it down a half star.  

I guess my point here is that we can't demand mathematical precision from these ratings, nor expect that every 4.5 star cigar is equally good.  What we can ask is that reviewers give enough information and explanation for us all to be able to understand why they liked or didn't like a cigar, and, in particular, whether they are tougher when they grade a super-premium as compated to a budget smoke.  I'll admit that I can't help but demand more from super-premiums.

Again, great, provocative post.
(__
  • ___{{{~[/B]

nukbucko

"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant."  -Some Dude I don't Know

mmedve

#19
Before I start, let me define reviewing a cigar accurately: reviewing accurately means giving a rating that exactly reflects the amount of total enjoyment you receive from the cigar, totally ignoring any external factors.

Reviewing a cigar accurately is nearly impossible. Your tastes will develop as you gain experience. Your palate will change depending on what you ate, how much you have been drinking, whether your nose is congested, etc. Your enjoyment will vary based on your mood, your ability to focus, whether you are in good company and have a decent adrenaline rush going or not. Your experience will be influenced by prejudices you have of the region, the back-story and the brand itself. And your review will be influenced by what other people think of the cigar, especially publications like cigar aficionado, even if you know for a fact that their reviews are based more on marketing considerations than actual enjoyment. Your review will also be influenced by your expectations, how much you paid, etc. If you paid $20, you are expecting a transcendental experience and if you pay $3 you are expecting at best a mediocre stick. This is not to mention that the construction of each cigar is different, the amount of time it has spent in the humi and how it has been kept are all factors in how it will taste.

I don't smoke very often, but I have been drinking wine and spirits for about 5 years and I don't think I am close to being able to judge accurately even my own tastes. I'd say I'm experienced enough for my own reviews to be somewhat useful in my purchasing decisions, but I am not satisfied with my ability to factor out all that I listed above.

And this is not even mentioning the problems that you run into with personal tastes....what makes a good cigar to you may not be the same for the next person.

tnt956

How many movies do "critics" give one or two stars two that the general public loves?

It's kind of the same thing here. We are just everyday people with our own tastes and opinions. This forum allows us express our personal opinion about cigars. And, the beauty is, if you don't agree you can tell it.

Welcome to the site!

DonM

Just a few comments in regards to some of the replys.  Referencing price, I have smoked some reasonably priced cigars that were really good!  A few of them are regulars in my Humidor.  I have smoked some high priced cigars as well, and agree with the comment that if you spend a good deal of money  on a cigar your expectations are going to be higher.  In both cases, the question addressed is does it justify a 5 star rating (of which, in my opinion, should be reserved for the extra ordinary cigar)  

  I have sampled some cigars that were very well constructed, and smoked well.  Although others seem to like them, they just werent to my taste.  In that respect, I chose not to write a review on them or wrote a review based on the quality of the cigar, not my tastes.  

  I hope everyone has a wonderful day!  :thumbsup:

"The Curmudgeon"













texlewee

#22
Funny.....  right now I would rather have the Vegas de Fonseca than the Opus.  here's part of my reasoning. For the overall package, this Vegas de FOnseca is one of the absolute best cigars I have smoked in a long time. Perhaps it was a perfect storm of sorts. Maybe my palate was conditioned just right, my attitude was just right, and mars was aligned with Jupiter, but that cheap ass little cigar flat knocked my socks off in every category. Did the fact that it was cheap increase its rating? YES. Just as it did when I rated some more expensive cigars and they didn't live up, so to speak.

The Miami was a great cigar, but not so different from every other Don Pepin I have ever smoked.  A five star from me generally means that it was a great, unique smoke in every way, and the Vegas de Fonseca lived up.

One great thing about this post is that it has encouraged me to review my reviews. I have gone back to look at some of my previous ratings to see if I "5'd" something in my early inexperience that I would rate lower these days........ Perfect Example:  I originally rated the Padilla Obsidian a 5.   More experience and several Obsidians later, it has a four.   I still love it, but it is not truly that unique.
" The only thing better than a good cigar is ANOTHER good cigar. "

" What a pleasant stain comes from an enemy's blood.  "

http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=humidors;area=public;member=texlewee

texlewee

Also, there is an inherent weakness in the short review on CG.  What goes into a great rating?  

I tend to rate with overall value per $$ in mind as well.   That's probably why several more expensive cigars I smoked got 4s and 4.5s.  I liked them, but not so much that I felt I could justify the price.  Whereas the Padron 1926 I smoked was worth every dime... as were all the Graycliff espressos.

But it is hard to relay that in a single all encompassing rating style system.   Here's a great example:

The Vegas de Fonseca and the Graycliff Espresso PGX.   If both were free, which one would I choose?   The Graycliff Espresso PGX.  I like it more.  

But, dollar for dollar, the Vegas De Fonseca is probably one of the most unique, best tasting cigars I have ever had.   :confused:

I have gone, as I said I would, and reviewed many of my reviews.... And I found I have changed my opinion on many cigars I have rated over the last year.

That's why I think it is important for us all to occasionally review our reviews: to see if we still feel the same way.....
" The only thing better than a good cigar is ANOTHER good cigar. "

" What a pleasant stain comes from an enemy's blood.  "

http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=humidors;area=public;member=texlewee

Duker511

First of all, in over 200 reviews here Ive only given a handfull of 5 star ratings. My thought is this, I dont care how much the cigar cost, I dont care what other smokers think of it, and I dont care what the marketers want us to think about it. If a cigar meets all the criteria, its gets the 5!!! I dont care if its a $1 bundle cigar, if it is well rolled, has a good draw, a good burn, and most of all tastes great too me.....it gets a 5.

Ive read reviews from many different sorces and in my opinion, this site has the MOST realistic reviewers out there!  :biggrin:
Tim


   
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