I'm officially an IDIOT

Started by C130Driver, 08/11/2015 07:17 AM

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C130Driver

So I'm currently TDY in Little Rock for six months. Being away from the wife it allowed me to give the place a "man's touch" and put my humidor out front and center in my living room where it belongs. The east wall has the big windows that really let in a lot of light. Apparently I forgot to close the blinds before I went to bed because when I got up the sun was shinning right in, which at first didn't seem like a big deal until I looked over at my humidor which is glass on all four sides and the light was shining right through it and there was condensation on the glass!! :-0  :-0  :-0  :-0  :-0  :-0  :-0  :-0  :-0  :-0  :-0  :-0

When I looked at my thermometer and hygrometer I about died. It was 104° F and 54%. :-0  :-0 I opened it up and let the temperature approach stable and then closed it to get the humidity back where it belongs. I inspected the sticks and apparently a few of the cigars' feet cracked!  :angry:  :angry:  I'm so angry with myself! I'm currently waiting for everything to stabilize before I go adding a ton of water to my humidifier. I don't want any additional sudden changes.

Any thoughts on long term damage?
I never can understand how anyone can not smoke it deprives a man of the best part of life. With a good cigar in his mouth a man is perfectly safe, nothing can touch him, literally.

Thomas Mann


¨¨°¨°¨Ô¨°¨°¨¨

Check out my inventory http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=humidors;area=public;member=C130Driver

Jay'D

I say smoke them all as quick as you can and start of fresh with new sticks..... just my two cents  :smoker:  :smoker:
Last name Hungry first name Always

My hobby collection | http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=humidors;area=public;member=Jay%27D

C130Driver

Ha! That's an expensive idea if I ever heard one!
I never can understand how anyone can not smoke it deprives a man of the best part of life. With a good cigar in his mouth a man is perfectly safe, nothing can touch him, literally.

Thomas Mann


¨¨°¨°¨Ô¨°¨°¨¨

Check out my inventory http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=humidors;area=public;member=C130Driver

Jackal

Once the temp drops the relative humidity will drop, so don't be too eager to add water yet.  Give the sticks a day or two to stabilize in a cooler temperature and freeze them to avoid insect growth.  Instructions can be found here http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=44

I'll do what I will and I'll drink what I please
I'll smoke what I like 'till I cough and I wheeze
I'll drink and I'll whore and every pleasure realize
For this time tomorrow I may die


millarddj

Good article. I'm consistently fascinated by the lengths to which folks will go to acquire, preserve, and resuscitate their dear stogies. I *almost* want to see these beetles to believe them.

:goodluck: salvaging as much as you can!
Ex Fumo Dare Lucem

lubrix

----
Guru of ruining the moment.

Jay'D

QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  11:56 AM

Once the temp drops the relative humidity will drop, so don't be too eager to add water yet.  Give the sticks a day or two to stabilize in a cooler temperature and freeze them to avoid insect growth.  Instructions can be found here http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=44

Hey Jackal, I've been told that most those online suppliers like cigar.com and such freeze their stock before selling them, is that true. If thats the case it wouldn't makde sense to refreeze them again when you get them would it? Would that take anything away from the stick, freezing them again when they were given the treatment already?
Last name Hungry first name Always

My hobby collection | http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=humidors;area=public;member=Jay%27D

Jackal

#7
QuoteJay'D - 8/11/2015  9:23 AM

QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  11:56 AM

Once the temp drops the relative humidity will drop, so don't be too eager to add water yet.  Give the sticks a day or two to stabilize in a cooler temperature and freeze them to avoid insect growth.  Instructions can be found here http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=44

Hey Jackal, I've been told that most those online suppliers like cigar.com and such freeze their stock before selling them, is that true. If thats the case it wouldn't makde sense to refreeze them again when you get them would it? Would that take anything away from the stick, freezing them again when they were given the treatment already?
[/QUOTE]

Freezing is over 95% effective, depending on temperature, time and stubbornness of the bugs.  It is not 100%.  That percent, or faction, thereof, is where things can get ugly.  Every once in a while, you hear about a reputable seller sending a shipment with bugs.

Rebecca once had an outbreak on a cigar that went through the freezing process twice (once at Corona cigar, and once by one of our members).  It can happen.

If you have a deeply implanted dormant bug, it could have made it through the freezing process.  That ridiculously high temperature, could have snapped that little buggerer back to an active state.  In this case, I would go with the better safe than sorry.

I'll do what I will and I'll drink what I please
I'll smoke what I like 'till I cough and I wheeze
I'll drink and I'll whore and every pleasure realize
For this time tomorrow I may die


Jackal

Quotemillarddj - 8/11/2015  9:13 AM

I *almost* want to see these beetles to believe them.


Believe me, you don't  :-(

I'll do what I will and I'll drink what I please
I'll smoke what I like 'till I cough and I wheeze
I'll drink and I'll whore and every pleasure realize
For this time tomorrow I may die


Kman

QuoteJay'D - 8/11/2015  12:23 PM  
QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  11:56 AM  Once the temp drops the relative humidity will drop, so don't be too eager to add water yet.  Give the sticks a day or two to stabilize in a cooler temperature and freeze them to avoid insect growth.  Instructions can be found here http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=44
Hey Jackal, I've been told that most those online suppliers like cigar.com and such freeze their stock before selling them, is that true. If thats the case it wouldn't makde sense to refreeze them again when you get them would it? Would that take anything away from the stick, freezing them again when they were given the treatment already?

So if all of them freeze their cigars, then how do people get beetles? Some may do that, although I have my doubts. I'm not sure I'd take their word for it I guess. The other option to freezing is getting an ozone machine and blasting the cigars with ozone. That will kill any living organism and not affect the taste at all.

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein


Jay'D

QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  12:33 PM

QuoteJay'D - 8/11/2015  9:23 AM

QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  11:56 AM

Once the temp drops the relative humidity will drop, so don't be too eager to add water yet.  Give the sticks a day or two to stabilize in a cooler temperature and freeze them to avoid insect growth.  Instructions can be found here http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=44

Hey Jackal, I've been told that most those online suppliers like cigar.com and such freeze their stock before selling them, is that true. If thats the case it wouldn't makde sense to refreeze them again when you get them would it? Would that take anything away from the stick, freezing them again when they were given the treatment already?

Freezing is over 95% effective, depending on temperature, time and stubbornness of the bugs.  It is not 100%.  That percent, or faction, thereof, is where things can get ugly.  Every once in a while, you hear about a reputable seller sending a shipment with bugs.

Rebecca once had an outbreak on a cigar that went through the freezing process twice (once at Corona cigar, and once by one of our members).  It can happen.

If you have a deeply implanted dormant bug, it could have made it through the freezing process.  That ridiculously high temperature, could have snapped that little buggerer back to an active state.  In this case, I would go with the better safe than sorry.[/QUOTE]

Got you Jackal, sound advice.
For some reason I feel very safe with the cigars I order online, its those ISOM I purchase from my local cigar shop here i have doubts about. To be on the safe side i keep those in their own humidor.
Last name Hungry first name Always

My hobby collection | http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=humidors;area=public;member=Jay%27D

Jackal

#11
QuoteKman - 8/11/2015  9:36 AM

QuoteJay'D - 8/11/2015  12:23 PM  
QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  11:56 AM  Once the temp drops the relative humidity will drop, so don't be too eager to add water yet.  Give the sticks a day or two to stabilize in a cooler temperature and freeze them to avoid insect growth.  Instructions can be found here http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=44
Hey Jackal, I've been told that most those online suppliers like cigar.com and such freeze their stock before selling them, is that true. If thats the case it wouldn't makde sense to refreeze them again when you get them would it? Would that take anything away from the stick, freezing them again when they were given the treatment already?

So if all of them freeze their cigars, then how do people get beetles? Some may do that, although I have my doubts. I'm not sure I'd take their word for it I guess. The other option to freezing is getting an ozone machine and blasting the cigars with ozone. That will kill any living organism and not affect the taste at all.

[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Ozone will only kill what it touches.  You would need to saturate the air around the stick in it to kill beetles that are inside the filler/ binder.  If you have ever had a cigar that did not have good air flow, then that cigar would not have let enough ozone in to kill beetles.  

Also, I am not sure if bombarding something with an oxidizer will not affect its taste, as oxidizers tend to break down flavor components (this is why spices lose potency over time).

I'll do what I will and I'll drink what I please
I'll smoke what I like 'till I cough and I wheeze
I'll drink and I'll whore and every pleasure realize
For this time tomorrow I may die


Kman

#12
QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  12:50 PM  
QuoteKman - 8/11/2015  9:36 AM  
QuoteJay'D - 8/11/2015  12:23 PM  
QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  11:56 AM  Once the temp drops the relative humidity will drop, so don't be too eager to add water yet.  Give the sticks a day or two to stabilize in a cooler temperature and freeze them to avoid insect growth.  Instructions can be found here http://www.cigargeeks.com/index.php?action=articles;sa=view;article=44
Hey Jackal, I've been told that most those online suppliers like cigar.com and such freeze their stock before selling them, is that true. If thats the case it wouldn't makde sense to refreeze them again when you get them would it? Would that take anything away from the stick, freezing them again when they were given the treatment already?

So if all of them freeze their cigars, then how do people get beetles? Some may do that, although I have my doubts. I'm not sure I'd take their word for it I guess. The other option to freezing is getting an ozone machine and blasting the cigars with ozone. That will kill any living organism and not affect the taste at all.

Ozone will only kill what it touches.  You would need to saturate the air around the stick in it to kill beetles that are inside the filler/ binder.  If you have ever had a cigar that did not have good air flow, then that cigar would not have let enough ozone in to kill beetles.    Also, I am not sure if bombarding something with an oxidizer will not affect its taste, as oxidizers tend to break down flavor components (this is why spices lose potency over time).[/QUOTE][/QUOTE] 

I run my ozone machine in my cabinet humidor about 3-4 times a year. With the seal intended for humidification, I'm pretty sure the sticks are getting saturated with the ozone. I've been doing this for about 18 months now and haven't noticed any effect on the taste of the cigars, but those are just my personal experiences.

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein


Jackal

#13
I have no firsthand studies of ozone vs Lasioderma serricorne.  However, extrapolating data on agricultural treatments of grain for mites and other insect larvae, shows that a minimum exposure of 135ppm ozone over a period of 8 days was necessary for full lethality, or 35 ppm of ozone for 6 days for control of freely exposed stages.

That is a shytload of ozone (135ppm is roughly 1/3 of the typical concentration of CO2 in air).  OSHA TWA PEL for ozone is 0.1ppm and NIOSH gives a 0.1ppm ceiling exposure.  To put it another way, the LD50 (lethal dose for killing 50% of a population) on mice (they don't let you do these tests on humans) is 22ppm ozone for 3 hours.

There is also a study out of UC Berkly showing that there are some interesting interactions between nicotine and ozone, that produce some nasty byproducts (high molecular weight nitrogenated species).

I doubt the ozone generator is producing anywhere near these levels, so its effectiveness in use as an insect control device is questionable.   It will, however, piss them off.




I'll do what I will and I'll drink what I please
I'll smoke what I like 'till I cough and I wheeze
I'll drink and I'll whore and every pleasure realize
For this time tomorrow I may die


Kman

QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  1:48 PM  I have no firsthand studies of ozone vs Lasioderma serricorne.  However, extrapolating data on agricultural treatments of grain for mites and other insect larvae, shows that a minimum exposure of 135ppm ozone over a period of 8 days was necessary for full lethality, or 35 ppm of ozone for 6 days for control of freely exposed stages.  That is a shytload of ozone (135ppm is roughly 1/3 of the typical concentration of CO2 in air).  OSHA TWA PEL for ozone is 0.1ppm and NIOSH gives a 0.1ppm ceiling exposure.  To put it another way, the LD50 (lethal dose for killing 50% of a population) on mice (they don't let you do these tests on humans) is 22ppm ozone for 3 hours.  There is also a study out of UC Berkly showing that there are some interesting interactions between nicotine and ozone, that produce some nasty byproducts (high molecular weight nitrogenated species).  I doubt the ozone generator is producing anywhere near these levels, so its effectiveness in use as an insect control device is questionable.   It will, however, piss them off.    

 Thanks for the information Jason, that's very informative. Looks like I might be back to freezing myself. I assume the ozone machine is still good for preventing/killing mold though, correct?

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." - Albert Einstein


Jackal

It is good on bacteria and mold.  They are much simpler organisms, so they don't take as much to kill.

Still, I am concerned about what the ozone could do to the cigars.  It sounds like you are using it pretty sparingly, so there is probably just so much cigar that it isn't doing too much damage.  however, if it is enough to kill odor, it is enough to damage flavor.  Maybe your cigars are giving much more binder/ filler flavor contribution than others that have more of a wrapper leaf contribution.

I'll do what I will and I'll drink what I please
I'll smoke what I like 'till I cough and I wheeze
I'll drink and I'll whore and every pleasure realize
For this time tomorrow I may die


horrido

QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  12:12 PM

It is good on bacteria and mold.  They are much simpler organisms, so they don't take as much to kill.

Still, I am concerned about what the ozone could do to the cigars.  It sounds like you are using it pretty sparingly, so there is probably just so much cigar that it isn't doing too much damage.  however, if it is enough to kill odor, it is enough to damage flavor.  Maybe your cigars are giving much more binder/ filler flavor contribution than others that have more of a wrapper leaf contribution.

Just wondering if you have ever heard of irradiation of sticks I do believe that happens with some foods so could it be applied to tobacco?
"As you approach thirty, you have a thirty ring gauge; as you approach fifty, you have a fifty ring gauge."
-- Cuban saying

lubrix

I keep a block of cobalt 60 in mine....seems to do the trick!.
----
Guru of ruining the moment.

Jackal

Quotehorrido - 8/11/2015  1:35 PM

QuoteJackal - 8/11/2015  12:12 PM

It is good on bacteria and mold.  They are much simpler organisms, so they don't take as much to kill.

Still, I am concerned about what the ozone could do to the cigars.  It sounds like you are using it pretty sparingly, so there is probably just so much cigar that it isn't doing too much damage.  however, if it is enough to kill odor, it is enough to damage flavor.  Maybe your cigars are giving much more binder/ filler flavor contribution than others that have more of a wrapper leaf contribution.

Just wondering if you have ever heard of irradiation of sticks I do believe that happens with some foods so could it be applied to tobacco?

It would probably work well.  I seem to remember reading about someone doing that a while back, may have been the Cubans.

Rad treatment is great.  Unfortunately, on this side of the great Northern boarder, the average person is as ill informed and radiophobic as the Germans, so it will never catch on with food here.

I'll do what I will and I'll drink what I please
I'll smoke what I like 'till I cough and I wheeze
I'll drink and I'll whore and every pleasure realize
For this time tomorrow I may die


Jackal

#19
Quotelubrix - 8/11/2015  1:39 PM

I keep a block of cobalt 60 in mine....seems to do the trick!.

Cobalt 60 is fun stuff.  It is one of the few materials that can become more dangerous when you try and use just lead to shield against its radiation (outer Bremsstrahlung effect; I love those overly long and clunky German words).

I'll do what I will and I'll drink what I please
I'll smoke what I like 'till I cough and I wheeze
I'll drink and I'll whore and every pleasure realize
For this time tomorrow I may die


Brlesq

I'm with Jason on this one.  Freeze those cigars that got a sunburn.  No sense tempting fate

Bruce
Chief Enabler 
Guru of Decorum & Sarcasm


Hey! How come Habana is written on here with a Sharpie ?!?

A day without whiskey is like . . . just kidding, I have no idea!



   
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