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Herf-a-dor & TSA
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runewolf
Posted 3/27/2017 6:51 AM (#701309 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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Fortunately or unfortunately lol, I haven't been on a plane in a good while now. What do you do with your torches? Simply put in check baggage? or Suffer without?
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Jackal
Posted 3/27/2017 11:04 AM (#701315 - in reply to #701309)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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runewolf - 3/27/2017 7:51 AM

Fortunately or unfortunately lol, I haven't been on a plane in a good while now. What do you do with your torches? Simply put in check baggage? or Suffer without?


Torches are pretty much verboten on airlines.

If you want to follow the law, and not get your torch confiscated, you would have to pack it in your checked luggage in a UN certified packaging (meeting PG II performance standards) that is properly labelled with UN1057 Class 2.1 markings. (IATA 4.4 SP A802). Packaging instructions 201 of the IATA regs cover all the details (as there are a bunch of nitpicky things that you have to account for when dealing with this).
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calvarez
Posted 3/27/2017 11:51 AM (#701316 - in reply to #701315)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA


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I've got to ask... who the heck is Thomas?


You figured it out, I glanced at your sig and picked up a name under an unwitting assumption. In my defense, I was reading the forum after a whisky or three.

I took my torch in carry-on a couple times, and in checked luggage many times. Never an issue. It is definitely illegal. Many TSA people think it's legal if its empty, although that's not true. I do empty it, and buy a small butane at my destination. But nobody has ever asked me to prove it's empty.
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runewolf
Posted 3/27/2017 1:09 PM (#701319 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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Gotcha, I wondered about that. Knowing issues shipping lighters and such. I am absolutely in love with my torch and would hate to lose it, but on the flip side it is not a $60 one either. Lol, maybe I should be thankful that the last several trips have been driving instead of flying.
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calvarez
Posted 3/27/2017 1:55 PM (#701321 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA


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I've never heard of someone losing their lighter, and a few of my friends also travel with them.
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C130Driver
Posted 3/30/2017 5:55 PM (#701464 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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You can often get away with it, but by the book they're a nicht nicht. I can't figure out why, but apparently someone thought being on fire at 36,000' was a bad idea.
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calvarez
Posted 3/30/2017 6:21 PM (#701468 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA


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I understand the rationale. Like most rules, they are there to stop the morons. I fly with it empty, it has a cover, and then it's inside of a leather case. Danger level zero...
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prican_2000
Posted 4/6/2017 11:28 AM (#701783 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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Last year I went to Jamaica to celebrate me and the wife's anniversary. Leaving DC on an early flight. I was made to give up my Brand new torch. There was no "Ands, If's or But's" about it. I was told that it was not allowed to carry on and I could not take it. After talking to the TSA rep (basically pleading) they offered that I could take it back to my car or dump it. I would've considered taking back to my car if I wouldn't have had Uber'd to the Airport. I've also heard of others given the option to mail their personal "TSA-Restricted" items back home but I wasn't given that option. I was pretty ticked as it was a Brand-New Never used Torch but I soon got over it once I landed in Paradise. But I know that someone in TSA has a very nice Torch that they are using.
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Jackal
Posted 4/6/2017 11:33 AM (#701785 - in reply to #701783)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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prican_2000 - 4/6/2017 12:28 PM

Last year I went to Jamaica to celebrate me and the wife's anniversary. Leaving DC on an early flight. I was made to give up my Brand new torch. There was no "Ands, If's or But's" about it. I was told that it was not allowed to carry on and I could not take it. After talking to the TSA rep (basically pleading) they offered that I could take it back to my car or dump it. I would've considered taking back to my car if I wouldn't have had Uber'd to the Airport. I've also heard of others given the option to mail their personal "TSA-Restricted" items back home but I wasn't given that option. I was pretty ticked as it was a Brand-New Never used Torch but I soon got over it once I landed in Paradise. But I know that someone in TSA has a very nice Torch that they are using.


Mailing it would be another problem, as you (legally) would have to comply with 49CFR and IATA rules for transportation of a lighter. Unfortunately, there are no EQ or Ltd Qty exceptions for lighters so you would have to comply with all packaging an marking restrictions for sending a DG.
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prican_2000
Posted 4/6/2017 11:49 AM (#701786 - in reply to #701785)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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Jackal - 4/6/2017 12:33 PM

Mailing it would be another problem, as you (legally) would have to comply with 49CFR and IATA rules for transportation of a lighter. Unfortunately, there are no EQ or Ltd Qty exceptions for lighters so you would have to comply with all packaging an marking restrictions for sending a DG.


Yes Sir, I can totally understand and see that point however, I thought I had done research concerning the TSA travel restrictions before my travels and there was no clear answer as to whether "Torch-Lighters" were authorized so that's why I bought on to bring with me. Lesson learned the Hard way.

Edited by prican_2000 4/6/2017 11:50 AM
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Jackal
Posted 4/6/2017 12:24 PM (#701789 - in reply to #701786)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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prican_2000 - 4/6/2017 12:49 PM

Jackal - 4/6/2017 12:33 PM

Mailing it would be another problem, as you (legally) would have to comply with 49CFR and IATA rules for transportation of a lighter. Unfortunately, there are no EQ or Ltd Qty exceptions for lighters so you would have to comply with all packaging an marking restrictions for sending a DG.


Yes Sir, I can totally understand and see that point however, I thought I had done research concerning the TSA travel restrictions before my travels and there was no clear answer as to whether "Torch-Lighters" were authorized so that's why I bought on to bring with me. Lesson learned the Hard way.


Unfortunately, the rules aren't TSA, they are ICAO/IATA.
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prican_2000
Posted 4/6/2017 12:30 PM (#701790 - in reply to #701789)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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Jackal - 4/6/2017 1:24 PM

Unfortunately, the rules aren't TSA, they are ICAO/IATA.



Awwwwwww Gotcha

Thanks for clarifying it!
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calvarez
Posted 4/6/2017 1:21 PM (#701797 - in reply to #701785)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA


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Mailing it would be another problem, as you (legally) would have to comply with 49CFR and IATA rules for transportation of a lighter. Unfortunately, there are no EQ or Ltd Qty exceptions for lighters so you would have to comply with all packaging an marking restrictions for sending a DG.


So what violations am I committing when I mail a lighter back to Xikar and they mail one to me? They simply say to empty it.
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calvarez
Posted 4/6/2017 1:24 PM (#701800 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA


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Also, the rules are extremely clear. The first paragraph on lighter restrictions says in the first sentence that torches are prohibited. I don't know how it could be clearer. I said I get away with checking mine, not that it's legal. I have been considering getting a case however...

Q2. Is there any exception to the “one lighter only” rule or the “no torch lighters” rule?
A2. You can bring up to two (2) additional lighters—including torch lighters—in your checked baggage when
you use DOT-approved airtight travel containers for lighters. Major lighter manufacturers such as Colibri,
Prometheus, and Zippo have secured DOT special permits for their lighter travel containers. They are available
from specialty stores and online. These DOT-approved containers are the only way you can carry the torch
lighters that the TSA bans from the aircraft cabin. They are also the only way you can carry lighters in checked
baggage (unless the lighter contains no fuel; see Q3.). Most of these containers are designed to hold one lighter;
some hold two. When shopping for a travel container for your lighter, make sure the container is marked with
the DOT special permit number and that you read and follow the instructions from the container manufacturer.
These DOT special permits only apply to U.S. domestic air travel.
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Jackal
Posted 4/6/2017 1:58 PM (#701804 - in reply to #701797)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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calvarez - 4/6/2017 2:21 PM


Mailing it would be another problem, as you (legally) would have to comply with 49CFR and IATA rules for transportation of a lighter. Unfortunately, there are no EQ or Ltd Qty exceptions for lighters so you would have to comply with all packaging an marking restrictions for sending a DG.


So what violations am I committing when I mail a lighter back to Xikar and they mail one to me? They simply say to empty it.


Technically Title 49 Part 173.56, subsection i. However the CFR is so convoluted that I am sure that there are other relevant sections too.

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calvarez
Posted 4/6/2017 2:31 PM (#701816 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA


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I'm curious then, do you believe Xikar is wantonly disregarding the law? Seems odd, but might be one of those things where "everyone does it."
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Jackal
Posted 4/6/2017 3:48 PM (#701826 - in reply to #701816)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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calvarez - 4/6/2017 3:31 PM

I'm curious then, do you believe Xikar is wantonly disregarding the law? Seems odd, but might be one of those things where "everyone does it."


I think that is more of the case. Plus, how many people are really that familiar with federal law? It is written so that just about no one can follow it or find most of the important info. Heck, just ask a bunch of postal employees about shipping DG or even tobacco, and you will get multiple answers (many of them wrong).

Shipping lighters is similar to shipping gasoline powered engines. Even if you drain all of the fuel, they are still considered hazardous, as there may be some traces lurking around. IATA refers to these as hidden Dangerous Goods. I am sure that the Feds have an appropriate term too, but I really don't want to look through the 1298 pages of 49CFR Parts 100-185. Did I mention how much I hate that document and how much of a pain it is to find anything in it?
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calvarez
Posted 5/1/2017 8:50 PM (#705359 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA


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I was reminded of this conversation when discussing the steps to check a gun on a plane. Turns out my friends all have hugely different experiences in how TSA and the airlines handle it. From not giving a crap and handling it like regular luggage to special handling and asking for ID and documents to get it.

TSA...sheesh...
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jagfandaddy
Posted 5/1/2017 9:15 PM (#705362 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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The two times I have been overseas(UK and France/Germany) I have found the same thing. Sad!
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C130Driver
Posted 5/31/2017 9:35 PM (#709279 - in reply to #705359)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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calvarez - 5/1/2017 11:50 PM

I was reminded of this conversation when discussing the steps to check a gun on a plane. Turns out my friends all have hugely different experiences in how TSA and the airlines handle it. From not giving a crap and handling it like regular luggage to special handling and asking for ID and documents to get it.

TSA...sheesh...


Don't get me started on the TSA...
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sar127
Posted 6/1/2017 7:31 AM (#709285 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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This has been my go to travel torch for 2 years now and it's worked out perfectly!

 https://www.amazon.com/soto-ST-PT-14SB-Soto-Pocket-Torch/dp/B0046UZRNU

 I keep the soft flame lighter and this shell separated in my carry on, and I've never had a problem. And lighter wise this has held up great, definitely recommend! 

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c9belayer
Posted 6/5/2017 12:27 PM (#709505 - in reply to #684793)
Subject: Re: Herf-a-dor & TSA



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FWIW, I've traveled to Florida, Minnesota, France, Germany, and Italy all with this basic setup and have never had a problem:
On my person:
1 each Djeep lighter
A Xikar cigar multi-tool
A straight punch on my keychain carabiner
In my messenger bag carry-on
Another Djeep lighter
A 10-count Xikar Traveldor, including cigars, wooden skewers (emergency pokers), 2 each 69% Bóveda 8-gram packs, and a custom pre-humidified cedar insert)

I would love to bring one of my torches, but I know my luck will run out.

Cheers!
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