Good morning. First time posting here but have been a member for a while. I have a New air wineador with Spanish cedar shelves and drawers that I got from forrest. I have 1 lb of 65% heartfelt beads . (I split them up to go to the top and bottom drawer. I live in New Orleans so I keep it plugged in and set to the highest setting which is 66. I have 2 Sensor Push wireless sensors for keeping track of the temps and humidity. I have one placed in the front of the bottom drawer and the other placed in the front of the top drawer.  Not sure on exactly where they need to be placed. I have two  computer fans on the top and bottom and timed to come on for 15min every 4 hours. Here lately I have been having problems with the humidity going above 72%. I do have the drain hole plugged up but I have just done this recently. I really don't remember having this much problems with the high humidity when it was open even though everyone says to pugged it. I checked my gasket but it looks fine. I took the wire for the fans that was going out the front of the door and dissented it and put it inside just to see if maybe a have a leak where wire was coming out of. I don't have the wineador empty but its not full either. Any suggestions or help? Thanks

Welcome to the group.  I have the CC-300 and I experienced a similar situation to yours a while back.  Are your beads over saturated?  Even though I use 70% beads, I was able to get my RH to ~65% just by drying them out and the slowly adding DW with a sprayer (2-4 sprays per .5lb bag).  It took a few days, but I was able to level it out.  Additionally, did you calibrate your sensors?

Also, you might want to introduce yourself in the Intros Forum.

Thanks for the response. I spray them when they look almost white but I did spray them little Friday. Maybe little to much? I turned the temp down to 65 and checked the seal on the door. According to the sensors the Humidity is going down now but that is because I lowered the temp. Figured these already come calibrated since they are used for all sorts of things.  I will monitor it for now and see what happens. I might remove one of the bags of beads and let it dry out some also. Was not sure if this forum was very active or not. I will introduce myself later in the forum.

Man I had nothing but problems with my wineador, spent way more on it then even a nice table top humidor. I hope you can get it where you are happy with it. I came to find out that sometimes the more control you think you have over temp & humidity might actually backfire on you and make them much harder to control. I wish you good luck, as mine was a huge headache! I kept my custom cedar shelves but the wineador ended up in the trash!

Mine has been pretty good since getting it. I mainly got it due to the heat here in New Orleans. Even with my house a/c set at 68 during the day and my old humidor in a dark corner the temp was high. Of course now I am buying boxes of my favorites and need the extra room.  I have always used beads since I started this hobby. Pretty much simple. I think I just get caught up in the whole Hydrometer and the reading they have when I guess I should just trust the beads.  Planning on keeping my wineador to to all the cedar shelves i got. I would love to get a nice tower humidor but they cost a lot, to much to ship and I already have a hard time keeping my wineador stock due to smoking the cigars.

1) %RH measurement is intrinsically inaccurate, and typically only accurate within a narrow set of conditions, (such as temperature range).

2) Therefore, I would only trust %RH measuring devices whose accuracy has been verified yourself, against a known standard.

3) What is the %RH in the room where the wineador is located? Naw'lins is a humid locale.....

Thanks for the replay and sorry for the late reply. The room looks like it stays around 65%right now. I plan on getting a 75%boveda calibration kit to calibrate my sensors. I recently pugged the wineador. I don't remember it being this high before I plugged the windeador.

Quotemini73 - 11/13/2017  8:35 AM

Thanks for the replay and sorry for the late reply. The room looks like it stays around 65%right now. I plan on getting a 75%boveda calibration kit to calibrate my sensors. I recently pugged the wineador. I don't remember it being this high before I plugged the windeador.

The manufacturers published RH accuracy spec is in the range of +- 4.5%  http://www.sensorpush.com/products/ht1

I would not use a 75% boveda for sensor calibration unless you intend to keep your cigars at 75%. Your OP stated that you like to keep tobacco at 66%RH. Therefore, I would use a 65% boveda for sensor calibration.

wrt design of experiments, how shall you conduct the calibration?

Ok. This is what I was thinking of doing but was not sure if its done. Going to take  sensors out today, put them in a baggy with a 65% boveda pack and let them be for over 24 hrs.

Good place to start.

Quotemini73 - 11/14/2017  7:14 AM

Ok. This is what I was thinking of doing but was not sure if its done. Going to take  sensors out today, put them in a baggy with a 65% boveda pack and let them be for over 24 hrs.

Put the sensors in a glass jar with the 65% Boveda and put the jar in the wineador. Glass is far less permeable than plastic. Separate the 3 as best you can within the space constraint. A quart mason jar on its side would work.

I'd leave it like that for ~ 4 days, then look at the data.

1) Is there any differential between the 2 sensors?

2) The humidity curves should be flat lines. Occasional 0.5% - 1.0% flickers in the flat lines are acceptable.

3) Boveda packs are accurate to +- 2%. Your sensors are accurate to +- 4.5%. Which means that your flat lines will fall somewhere between 58.5 and 71.5 % RH.

If either sensor plots a non-constant line, it is imprecise.

Good luck with it.

Quotewescat - 11/14/2017  8:01 AM

Quotemini73 - 11/14/2017  7:14 AM

Ok. This is what I was thinking of doing but was not sure if its done. Going to take  sensors out today, put them in a baggy with a 65% boveda pack and let them be for over 24 hrs.

Put the sensors in a glass jar with the 65% Boveda and put the jar in the wineador. Glass is far less permeable than plastic. Separate the 3 as best you can within the space constraint. A quart mason jar on its side would work.

I'd leave it like that for ~ 4 days, then look at the data.

1) Is there any differential between the 2 sensors?

2) The humidity curves should be flat lines. Occasional 0.5% - 1.0% flickers in the flat lines are acceptable.

3) Boveda packs are accurate to +- 2%. Your sensors are accurate to +- 4.5%. Which means that your flat lines will fall somewhere between 58.5 and 71.5 % RH.

If either sensor plots a non-constant line, it is imprecise.

Good luck with it.

Thanks for the reply weskit. I did pull the sensors morning and put them in the ziplock bags with a bored but I like the idea of putting them in a mason jar and putting it in the wineador. Got a mason jar at work and will bring home today to do this. Got another question about the sensors that I got. I usually put one sensor in the bottom drawer all the way to the front and one in the top drawer all the way to the front. I am assuming with the sensor push I need to stand them up on their side so they can sense the temp and humidity? Also, should they be placed in the front, middle or rear of the drawer or does this even matter? I think I am over thinking this but its fun trying to get the right settings on the wineador. Thanks in advance.

"I am assuming with the sensor push I need to stand them up on their side so they can sense the temp and humidity?" I do not know, check the documentation that came with the sensors.

"Also, should they be placed in the front, middle or rear of the drawer or does this even matter?" It does not matter.

Thermodynamics is a complicated subject.  If your humidor has a RH of 65% and the temp is 70F it his holding a dew point of 57.7F.  If the temp drops one degree suddenly, the dew point (amount of water in the air) will still be 57.7F.  So at a temp of 69F and a dew point of 57.7F the RH is now 67.27%, ajump in RH of just over 2%. If the drop is 2F your humidor is now nearing 70% RH.  Remember, nothing changed but the temp. The R in RH stands for relative. The beads, Spanish cedar nor cigars react all that quickly to instantly adjust the amount of moisture in the air.  It takes time for the system to react to environmental changes.

Here is a calculator: http://andrew.rsmas.miami.edu/bmcnoldy/Humidity.html

Not to hijack the thread, but I have no faith anymore in the cheap Xikar or Hygroset hygrometer's. Change the battery as I did and have to re calibrate. I have used Heartfelt beads exclusively for years. When those cheap hygrometers reading start to drop, I give the beads a little spray and am good for a month. The damn beads are far better than the POS hygrometers on the market today.

I will say I have not explored the sensors Kevin is using and maybe it is something to look into but my method has worked well for me to date and my cigars smoke just fine

I have a SensorPush and I'm satisfied with it.  If I wish, I can see the current and historical readings on my iOS device or android.  I'll try attaching a screen shot of today's readings.

Got the sensors in a mason jar with a 65% boveda pack tape to the top on the inside so it will not contact the sensors. Got them in my wineador and will keep them in there for a few days till they stabilize then calibrate them.

QuoteDonM - 11/15/2017  3:02 PM

Not to hijack the thread, but I have no faith anymore in the cheap Xikar or Hygroset hygrometer's. Change the battery as I did and have to re calibrate. I have used Heartfelt beads exclusively for years. When those cheap hygrometers reading start to drop, I give the beads a little spray and am good for a month. The damn beads are far better than the POS hygrometers on the market today.

I will say I have not explored the sensors Kevin is using and maybe it is something to look into but my method has worked well for me to date and my cigars smoke just fine

I agree. I don't trust the Xikar hygrometers that I have in the wineador. I have calibrated them at the same time a few times and they just seem like they are not right. I will trust the Sensor Push sensor though. I will just have the hygrometers in us for a quick glance. Think I will do the same with my beads and give the beads little spray when they start showing low.

Quotemini73 - 11/16/2017  8:40 AM

Got the sensors in a mason jar with a 65% boveda pack tape to the top on the inside so it will not contact the sensors. Got them in my wineador and will keep them in there for a few days till they stabilize then calibrate them.

Ok. It's been a few days and the sensors seem to stabilize in the mason jar with a 65% boveda pack in it. I kept the temp on the wineador at 64 and have not opened it since. going to calibrate the sensors to 65% on the app. I want to calibrate the temp on the sensors also. They show how to do it.

Quotemini73 - 11/18/2017  10:48 AM

Ok. It's been a few days and the sensors seem to stabilize in the mason jar with a 65% boveda pack in it. I kept the temp on the wineador at 64 and have not opened it since. going to calibrate the sensors to 65% on the app. I want to calibrate the temp on the sensors also. They show how to do it.

QuoteBewareDaPenguin - 11/12/2017  1:31 PM

Man I had nothing but problems with my wineador, spent way more on it then even a nice table top humidor. I hope you can get it where you are happy with it. I came to find out that sometimes the more control you think you have over temp & humidity might actually backfire on you and make them much harder to control. I wish you good luck, as mine was a huge headache! I kept my custom cedar shelves but the wineador ended up in the trash!

- I know it's been a while but do you remember what kept going wrong or under which conditions? I am asking as we can all learn something from your experience and any mistakes one may make. I am in a market for a winedor myself, so just brushing up on the what and the how's.

Maybe there should be separate Forum place called Winedor so people can go there regarding those rather than the end of table humidors :)

Glad you posted that Russ. I've been kind of looking at them myself.

My 2 cents:
1) These units are cooled by a Peltier Thermoelectric cooler. In my experience, you will always have some condensate, so if you plug the drain hole, the condensate will run down the back of the unit and puddle on the bottom. A little moisture results even if you don't, so put 1/2 your beads in the rear back bottom, and check it periodically to see if it's saturated. After years of trial and error, I keep my drain hole open, and a clean rag at the bottom rear that seams perpetually moist. No issues.
2) Remember to periodically clean the air intake grill in the back. I have a Whynter cooler, and it has a little screen that comes off for cleaning. I really need to remember to do this on my kitchen refrigerator!
3) Even though I'm a data junkie, keeping too close an eye on humidity will drive you nuts. All those pretty charts are only valid if you remember the error margins that others speak of. Unfortunately, _none_ of the charts I've seen allow for smoothing or include an error margin range. Which leads me to #4...
4) How are your cigars smoking? If they're smoking fine, relax and enjoy! Let that be your ultimate guide. If they're dry, add moisture. If they're moist, leave the door open for an hour or two, or consider dry-boxing the cigars you'll smoke within a week. Above all, relax!