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Random quote: “It has always been my rule never to smoke when asleep, and never to refrain when awake.” Mark Twain
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What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?
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ghoshlili401
Posted 7/4/2018 4:36 AM (#743751)
Subject: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?


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What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?
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Chefjohn
Posted 7/4/2018 5:19 AM (#743752 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: RE: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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Firstly, welcome to the group. It’s not the cigars or their contents/ingredients that are illegal. It is illegal to purchase or sell them in the United States. This is due to the trade embargo imposed by President Kennedy in 1962. What has changed is that as of 2016 U S citizens may purchase them in other countries and bring them back with a limit of 100 cigars I believe it is as long as they are for personal consumption. That’s my understanding. I’m sure some of the veterans here can shed some more light on the subject.

Edited by Chefjohn 7/4/2018 5:24 AM
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Otter
Posted 7/4/2018 7:43 AM (#743757 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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I get this in the store all the time... people think that President Obama lifted the embargo but the only thing that changed with regards to cigars is as ChefJohn stated you can bring a limited amount in the country for personal use. You cannot buy them in the United States from any source. If the Embargo were lifted today they would have to comply with the FDA regulations just like any other company. I don’t see the Cuban government submitting samples and paying the extortion fees to the US Government to gain FDA approval. They might try to argue that their trademarks were marketed before 15 February 2007 and are then grandfathered but their trademarks are not US trademarks. In fact someone else owns several of the same names under US trademark such as General Cigar Company who owns their own Cohiba, La Gloria Cubana, etc... I don’t expect President Trump to push to lift the Embargo but again even he does this won’t change the FDA's effect on the import of these cigars or the legal battle for the trademarks (I’d expect General Cigar to successfully obtain a court injunction preventing the sale of a product using their US Trademarks).
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amigodecigars
Posted 7/4/2018 8:10 AM (#743758 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: RE: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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Cuba has some world class tobacco but that doesn't always translate into good, premium cigars.  Putting different logos/bands on the same cigar has pissed-off alot of smokers.
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Otter
Posted 7/4/2018 8:24 AM (#743760 - in reply to #743758)
Subject: RE: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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amigodecigars - 7/4/2018 12:10 PM

Cuba has some world class tobacco but that doesn't always translate into good, premium cigars.  Putting different logos/bands on the same cigar has pissed-off alot of smokers.


American smokers want it because its the forbidden fruit but many times now its a rotten apple - so many fakes are sold to unsuspecting tourists and even when it's the real thing their quality control sucks so you can't count on a good draw... Why work hard or show initiative when everyone makes $23 USD per month regardless of contribution/output.
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Otter
Posted 7/4/2018 8:42 AM (#743764 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: RE: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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As an interesting aside, if you haven't heard this story its worth reading... JFK like most politicians put himself first. He sent his staffer Pierre Salinger out to obtain '1,000 Petit Upmanns' on February 6, 1962, so he could have them in his hands before they he deemed them contraband. Salinger returned with 1200 cigars, at which time JFK signed the embargo.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098064/John-F-Kennedy-boug...

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Cfickter
Posted 7/4/2018 12:54 PM (#743794 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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A couple of clarifications to Otters comments. Half of Habanas SAa is owned by Altidas makers of RyJ Montecristo Upmann and others. So trademarks might be able to be grandfathered in. On another front Empresa Cubana who owns the Cubans rights to Cohiba sued General in US courts over the name. Lost in lower courts and Federal courts ruled that the lower court may not have interpreted the general exception clause under the CACR correctly. This is still an open issue.
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DonM
Posted 7/4/2018 1:25 PM (#743796 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: RE: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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As previously stated, the tobacco is grown in Cuba is the problem. Do they make some good cigars? They sure do, followed by some mediocre cigars followed by all of the fakes that are also on the market.

We get plenty of great cigars here in the US from DOM, NIC and HON without even touching Cubans AND you don't have to age them like you do Cubans. But then, what do I know?

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nirab
Posted 7/4/2018 1:42 PM (#743801 - in reply to #743796)
Subject: RE: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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nothing...
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c9belayer
Posted 7/4/2018 2:58 PM (#743811 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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If and/or when Cuban tobacco becomes importable to the U.S. it'll mean Cuba's tobaccos will be available to those who blend cigars for the U.S. market... and won't THAT be fun! Can you imagine a cigar with a Mata Fina Brazilian wrapper, a Cameroon binder, and a bunch of Cuban viso and ligero fillers?!? The mind boggles.
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Chefjohn
Posted 7/4/2018 3:10 PM (#743818 - in reply to #743796)
Subject: RE: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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DonM - 7/4/2018 2:25 PM

As previously stated, the tobacco is grown in Cuba is the problem. Do they make some good cigars? They sure do, followed by some mediocre cigars followed by all of the fakes that are also on the market.

We get plenty of great cigars here in the US from DOM, NIC and HON without even touching Cubans AND you don't have to age them like you do Cubans. But then, what do I know?



I agree with You Don that there are some fine cigars produced outside of Cuba. I am a newbie to being serious about cigars and I don’t know about the various companies and their licenses of brand ownership as some of the more knowledgeable members here do but I do know that the ones I’ve had from DOM, NOC, and HON I have enjoyed greatly.
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amigodecigars
Posted 7/4/2018 4:44 PM (#743835 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: RE: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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The factory in Costa Rica will buy Cuban tobaccos when Don Olman can find some that has been properly grown and processed.  Right now we believe that the best tobaccos in the world are from; Peru, Ecuador, Domincan Republic and Nicaragua.  Blending tobaccos for a premium cigar is an "art & science".
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Otter
Posted 7/4/2018 5:08 PM (#743836 - in reply to #743835)
Subject: RE: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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amigodecigars - 7/4/2018 8:44 PM

The factory in Costa Rica will buy Cuban tobaccos when Don Olman can find some that has been properly grown and processed.  Right now we believe that the best tobaccos in the world are from; Peru, Ecuador, Domincan Republic and Nicaragua.  Blending tobaccos for a premium cigar is an "art & science".


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Cfickter
Posted 7/6/2018 7:11 AM (#743932 - in reply to #743811)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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c9belayer - 7/4/2018 3:58 PM If and/or when Cuban tobacco becomes importable to the U.S. it'll mean Cuba's tobaccos will be available to those who blend cigars for the U.S. market... and won't THAT be fun! Can you imagine a cigar with a Mata Fina Brazilian wrapper, a Cameroon binder, and a bunch of Cuban viso and ligero fillers?!? The mind boggles.


IMHO I don't think you will see loose tobacco sold.  If legalization does happen then all hell will break loose.  There is barely enough tobacco grown to support what they sell to now. You add the largest cigar market in the world and there is a good chance the quality will go to s**t because they will need every scrap they can find.  I wouldn't be surprised to also hear that the Cuban authorities are on the market for non-Cuban tobacco.  

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Otter
Posted 7/6/2018 9:21 AM (#743939 - in reply to #743932)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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Cfickter - 7/6/2018 11:11 AM

c9belayer - 7/4/2018 3:58 PM If and/or when Cuban tobacco becomes importable to the U.S. it'll mean Cuba's tobaccos will be available to those who blend cigars for the U.S. market... and won't THAT be fun! Can you imagine a cigar with a Mata Fina Brazilian wrapper, a Cameroon binder, and a bunch of Cuban viso and ligero fillers?!? The mind boggles.


IMHO I don't think you will see loose tobacco sold.  If legalization does happen then all hell will break loose.  There is barely enough tobacco grown to support what they sell to now. You add the largest cigar market in the world and there is a good chance the quality will go to s**t because they will need every scrap they can find.  I wouldn't be surprised to also hear that the Cuban authorities are on the market for non-Cuban tobacco.  



They already import Nicaraguan tobacco. My bet is Dominican as well but I have only been told about the Nicaraguan exports.
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Cfickter
Posted 7/6/2018 5:15 PM (#743969 - in reply to #743939)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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Otter - 7/6/2018 10:21 AM
Cfickter - 7/6/2018 11:11 AM
c9belayer - 7/4/2018 3:58 PM If and/or when Cuban tobacco becomes importable to the U.S. it'll mean Cuba's tobaccos will be available to those who blend cigars for the U.S. market... and won't THAT be fun! Can you imagine a cigar with a Mata Fina Brazilian wrapper, a Cameroon binder, and a bunch of Cuban viso and ligero fillers?!? The mind boggles.


IMHO I don't think you will see loose tobacco sold.  If legalization does happen then all hell will break loose.  There is barely enough tobacco grown to support what they sell to now. You add the largest cigar market in the world and there is a good chance the quality will go to s**t because they will need every scrap they can find.  I wouldn't be surprised to also hear that the Cuban authorities are on the market for non-Cuban tobacco.  

They already import Nicaraguan tobacco. My bet is Dominican as well but I have only been told about the Nicaraguan exports.

 I had heard they were doing some importing but my comment was more the larger picture I'd ever legalized 

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Otter
Posted 7/6/2018 5:36 PM (#743971 - in reply to #743969)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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Cfickter - 7/6/2018 9:15 PM

Otter - 7/6/2018 10:21 AM
Cfickter - 7/6/2018 11:11 AM
c9belayer - 7/4/2018 3:58 PM If and/or when Cuban tobacco becomes importable to the U.S. it'll mean Cuba's tobaccos will be available to those who blend cigars for the U.S. market... and won't THAT be fun! Can you imagine a cigar with a Mata Fina Brazilian wrapper, a Cameroon binder, and a bunch of Cuban viso and ligero fillers?!? The mind boggles.


IMHO I don't think you will see loose tobacco sold.  If legalization does happen then all hell will break loose.  There is barely enough tobacco grown to support what they sell to now. You add the largest cigar market in the world and there is a good chance the quality will go to s**t because they will need every scrap they can find.  I wouldn't be surprised to also hear that the Cuban authorities are on the market for non-Cuban tobacco.  

They already import Nicaraguan tobacco. My bet is Dominican as well but I have only been told about the Nicaraguan exports.

 I had heard they were doing some importing but my comment was more the larger picture I'd ever legalized 



It’s a valid point 100% in agreement.
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toby2
Posted 7/6/2018 10:39 PM (#743996 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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i’ve always thought it was strange. the US does business with every nasty nation and nation state with few exceptions. why not Cuba?
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junglepete
Posted 7/7/2018 6:32 PM (#744022 - in reply to #743996)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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Being Canadian I have had plenty of cuban cigars both purchased in Canada and purchased on trips to Cuba, at least a dozen times. Here is my overall take on Cuban cigars: Quality control is a real issue. For the amount that I have smoked, the ratio of plugged or way too tighly rolled cigars is very high, especially so at their price point. The quality of consistency does not compare to non cuban cigars. Tastewise, some are great, some are average, and a few are not so great. I cannot agree more with anyone who feels that the "forbidden friut" has both lifted and kept cuban cigars high on the desirable list for that reason alone. There are so many great non cuban cigars at much better prices to be had. With that said, it sure is nice to sit back at any place in Cuba and smoke a Cuban cigar

On a side note, this place is the last standing cigar maker in Canada. Cuban tobacco is still used.
http://www.correnticigars.com/index.php
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Chefjohn
Posted 7/7/2018 6:43 PM (#744023 - in reply to #744022)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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junglepete - 7/7/2018 7:32 PM

Being Canadian I have had plenty of cuban cigars both purchased in Canada and purchased on trips to Cuba, at least a dozen times. Here is my overall take on Cuban cigars: Quality control is a real issue. For the amount that I have smoked, the ratio of plugged or way too tighly rolled cigars is very high, especially so at their price point. The quality of consistency does not compare to non cuban cigars. Tastewise, some are great, some are average, and a few are not so great. I cannot agree more with anyone who feels that the "forbidden friut" has both lifted and kept cuban cigars high on the desirable list for that reason alone. There are so many great non cuban cigars at much better prices to be had. With that said, it sure is nice to sit back at any place in Cuba and smoke a Cuban cigar

On a side note, this place is the last standing cigar maker in Canada. Cuban tobacco is still used.
http://www.correnticigars.com/index.php


I agree with you Pete about the concept of the “forbidden fruit” increasing their allure. I am by no means an expert and am fairly new to premium cigars but I have had many wonderful smokes fro NIC, DOM, and HON.
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frankj1
Posted 7/19/2018 10:12 PM (#748891 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?


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going strictly by my shaky memory, but I believe the change under Obama allowed for a total of $100 Cuban cigars and or rums. This was rolled back to pre G. W. Bush limits under Trump.
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DanielStauffer
Posted 7/17/2019 10:28 AM (#770053 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?


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As per the ban of trading with communist countries like Cuba US made it illegal for Cuban cigars trade. It's only trading that's been banned but not consumption.
https://www.swisscubancigars.com/blog/why-are-cuban-cigars-rated-bes...
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arrow34
Posted 7/17/2019 10:39 AM (#770054 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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It is just forbidden fruit...I agree with others that they make good cigars, but quality control is so-so. Prices are are high due to demand and the myth that cubans are the best in the world. Are they great cigars, yes some are. Not all. Just because it comes from ISOM, doesnt make it automatically better.

The amazing supply of cigars from all sources we have now is truly a golden age of cigars. The cigar consumption stats are astounding, surpassing the high in 1998 of 330million(for the US alone in 2017).

I just hope that the laws dont change to the point where we have to smuggle our cigars in from all sources. Some states have already banned cigar sales to be shipped in(crazy). Makes me want to hoard more cigars....

**stepping off soap box**

p.s. I actually prefer domestic(nic,hon, dom) cigars to cubans, especially at the price points. Even if the price points were equal(which they wont be) there is more flavor diversity and complexity in most domestic sticks. With AJ, AB, Steve Saka, and many other new blenders, we have some amazing sticks at amazing prices these days.

Edited by arrow34 7/17/2019 10:45 AM
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Cfickter
Posted 7/18/2019 8:03 AM (#770083 - in reply to #743751)
Subject: Re: What is in a Cuban cigar that makes it illegal?



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The trade restrictions with Cuba have nothing to do with the US policy toward communist countries. There are communist countries with far fewer restrictions than Cuba.
The laws surrounding the embargo against Cuba are for the most part specific to Cuba. Arms embargo in 1958, general export embargo (except food and medicine) in 1960, extended exports 1962. The Cuban Assets Control Regulations of 1963, the Cuban Democracy Act of 1992, the Helms–Burton Act of 1996 are focused on further strengthening trade restrictions with Cuba. Despite the existence of the embargo, the United States is the fifth-largest exporter to Cuba (6.6% of Cuba's imports come from the US). Cuba must, however, pay cash for all imports.

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