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Brands that I just don't "get"
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Kid Montana
Posted 1/28/2019 11:59 AM (#762085)
Subject: Brands that I just don't "get"



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The budget stick discussion got me thinking about how there are quite a few premium brands that I don't really prefer, for a variety of reasons typically along the lines that s**t doesn't taste very interesting to me, even if its a perfectly good cigar otherwise. Everyone has their preferences and if someone likes a budget stick/budget line or brand, good for them, but it always seems peculiar to not really enjoy anything by a premium brand. There are some really premium brands that I've tried multiple times and never been impressed like Zino, Avo, and Nat Sherman. Of course there are a whole host of more mass-market brands / mid market brands that I don't prefer like Rocky Patel, Gran Habano, Alec Bradley, Kristoff, most if not all the Altadis & General Tobacco brands (Montecristo, Punch, Romeo & Julieta, H. Upmann 1844 etc).

Ignoring the whole "value for money" aspect, what are some top shelf brands that you just tend to not enjoy? Do you know why, other than just a price consideration?

Edited by Kid Montana 1/28/2019 12:01 PM
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Brlesq
Posted 1/28/2019 12:30 PM (#762087 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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Kid Montana - 1/28/2019 12:59 PM

The budget stick discussion got me thinking about how there are quite a few premium brands that I don't really prefer, for a variety of reasons typically along the lines that s**t doesn't taste very interesting to me, even if its a perfectly good cigar otherwise. Everyone has their preferences and if someone likes a budget stick/budget line or brand, good for them, but it always seems peculiar to not really enjoy anything by a premium brand. There are some really premium brands that I've tried multiple times and never been impressed like Zino, Avo, and Nat Sherman. Of course there are a whole host of more mass-market brands / mid market brands that I don't prefer like Rocky Patel, Gran Habano, Alec Bradley, Kristoff, most if not all the Altadis & General Tobacco brands (Montecristo, Punch, Romeo & Julieta, H. Upmann 1844 etc).

Ignoring the whole "value for money" aspect, what are some top shelf brands that you just tend to not enjoy? Do you know why, other than just a price consideration?


Our palates are very similar, and I agree with your lists other than Gran Habano, a brand from which I have found a few decent value smokes.

I would add Cohiba (NC) and Gurkha to your lists.
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Silverstix
Posted 1/28/2019 12:56 PM (#762088 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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Could never and probably will never understand Rocky Patel. Very hit or miss construction, and flavor profiles that have zero excitement. Such a polarizing cigar - some people absolutely love them but for me I'd never spend another cent on one. To each their own right?
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Adwinistrator
Posted 1/28/2019 1:51 PM (#762091 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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I had to learn to hate Patel. My first one was a perfectly burning Vintage 1990 Churchill. Never had another 1990 that burned properly, never had another Patel that tasted as good.
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appollo
Posted 1/28/2019 1:58 PM (#762092 - in reply to #762088)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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I have smoked a few of the RP New Decade Robusto and liked them.
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Kid Montana
Posted 1/28/2019 2:49 PM (#762094 - in reply to #762087)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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Brlesq - 1/28/2019 10:30 AM

Kid Montana - 1/28/2019 12:59 PM

The budget stick discussion got me thinking about how there are quite a few premium brands that I don't really prefer, for a variety of reasons typically along the lines that s**t doesn't taste very interesting to me, even if its a perfectly good cigar otherwise. Everyone has their preferences and if someone likes a budget stick/budget line or brand, good for them, but it always seems peculiar to not really enjoy anything by a premium brand. There are some really premium brands that I've tried multiple times and never been impressed like Zino, Avo, and Nat Sherman. Of course there are a whole host of more mass-market brands / mid market brands that I don't prefer like Rocky Patel, Gran Habano, Alec Bradley, Kristoff, most if not all the Altadis & General Tobacco brands (Montecristo, Punch, Romeo & Julieta, H. Upmann 1844 etc).

Ignoring the whole "value for money" aspect, what are some top shelf brands that you just tend to not enjoy? Do you know why, other than just a price consideration?


Our palates are very similar, and I agree with your lists other than Gran Habano, a brand from which I have found a few decent value smokes.

I would add Cohiba (NC) and Gurkha to your lists.


I lump the red dot Cohiba and Gurkha into the General Tobacco s**t list. I don't know if they're considered true premium / boutique or not, given they're just one of many marques produced by General Tobacco.

Edited by Kid Montana 1/28/2019 2:50 PM
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Chefjohn
Posted 1/28/2019 3:32 PM (#762096 - in reply to #762094)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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I don’t have the experience yet that you gentleman have but I kind of experienced the same I don’t get it feeling when I tried the Liga Privada 9. I think I allowed myself to subscribe to all they hype around it and was very underwhelmed by it and actually found it to be rather pedestrian. I also have tried and don’t care for RP’s. His was the only stick that set my head spinning. I think it was the Super Ligero but I don’t recall for sure.
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Kid Montana
Posted 1/28/2019 3:44 PM (#762098 - in reply to #762096)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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Chefjohn - 1/28/2019 1:32 PM

I don’t have the experience yet that you gentleman have but I kind of experienced the same I don’t get it feeling when I tried the Liga Privada 9. I think I allowed myself to subscribe to all they hype around it and was very underwhelmed by it and actually found it to be rather pedestrian. I also have tried and don’t care for RP’s. His was the only stick that set my head spinning. I think it was the Super Ligero but I don’t recall for sure.


I think there is a growing consensus that the Liga No 9 has fallen off in recent years. It may be a shift in where a specific tobacco is sourced, a change in the curing temps, maybe they're not aging the tobacco as long before rolling... not really sure.
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Silverstix
Posted 1/28/2019 4:00 PM (#762100 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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Kid Montana - 1/28/2019 12:59 PM Of course there are a whole host of more mass-market brands / mid market brands that I don't prefer like Rocky Patel, Gran Habano, Alec Bradley, Kristoff, most if not all the Altadis & General Tobacco brands (Montecristo, Punch, Romeo & Julieta, H. Upmann 1844 etc). Ignoring the whole "value for money" aspect, what are some top shelf brands that you just tend to not enjoy? Do you know why, other than just a price consideration?

Give the H Upmann/AJ Fernandez stick a try.  I really like that cigar  

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05Venturer
Posted 1/28/2019 4:37 PM (#762102 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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For me it would be Opux X, I know I know, but all that I have tried have been just OK for me and at their price point they should be better than just OK.
Most all of the newer DE Ligas have gone to $hit in my opinion also.
Alec Bradley is another other than the Black Markets that I won't spend any money on.
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appollo
Posted 1/28/2019 5:27 PM (#762104 - in reply to #762100)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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Silverstix - 1/28/2019 6:00 PM

Kid Montana - 1/28/2019 12:59 PM Of course there are a whole host of more mass-market brands / mid market brands that I don't prefer like Rocky Patel, Gran Habano, Alec Bradley, Kristoff, most if not all the Altadis & General Tobacco brands (Montecristo, Punch, Romeo & Julieta, H. Upmann 1844 etc). Ignoring the whole "value for money" aspect, what are some top shelf brands that you just tend to not enjoy? Do you know why, other than just a price consideration?

Give the H Upmann/AJ Fernandez stick a try.  I really like that cigar  

Yea they are a good stick smoked a few of them myself and keep some in my humi.pick them up at Holts for 3.99 per stick when you buy a box.
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tuck0411
Posted 1/28/2019 6:34 PM (#762106 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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I've had pretty good luck with RP so far, but one I expected to like has mostly fallen short, that being Gran Habano. Three out of the five different sticks I've smoked from them have been mediocre. The 3 SLS was the best of the bunch. On a positive note, every Oliva I've ever smoked has been a winner, including their 2nds.
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Adwinistrator
Posted 1/28/2019 6:43 PM (#762109 - in reply to #762102)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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05Venturer - 1/28/2019 5:37 PM

For me it would be Opux X, I know I know, but all that I have tried have been just OK for me and at their price point they should be better than just OK.
Most all of the newer DE Ligas have gone to $hit in my opinion also.
Alec Bradley is another other than the Black Markets that I won't spend any money on.


I've only had one Opus X, the regular Fuente Fuente, and was not blown away, so kind of feeling you. Want to try more to see what else they have to offer though.

DE has dropped off big time... So disappointed in my box of T52 pigs, 75% of the caps come apart. Papa Fritas are always worth it, but otherwise, I am leaning away.
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arrow34
Posted 1/28/2019 8:00 PM (#762115 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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This is an interesting and very old discussion when it comes to specific brands and tastes. I have had the same experiences with some of the brands listed, but have fallen in love with others from the same brands, different lines. It all comes down to taste and value.
I don't really like Rockies or cohiba red dots, but do like the Dominica and macassar (mood), like some of the montes, but love aj Fernandez sticks, like the aj Fernandez h.upmann, punch Diablo, oliva v mil, Steve Saka's stuff Dunbarton, Foundation Cigar Co.. all a matter of taste.
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Deener27
Posted 1/28/2019 8:35 PM (#762116 - in reply to #762115)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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arrow34 - 1/28/2019 8:00 PM

This is an interesting and very old discussion when it comes to specific brands and tastes. I have had the same experiences with some of the brands listed, but have fallen in love with others from the same brands, different lines. It all comes down to taste and value.
I don't really like Rockies or cohiba red dots, but do like the Dominica and macassar (mood), like some of the montes, but love aj Fernandez sticks, like the aj Fernandez h.upmann, punch Diablo, oliva v mil, Steve Saka's stuff Dunbarton, Foundation Cigar Co.. all a matter of taste.


I feel like this is partially a product of supply and demand as well as sourcing. When demand starts to increase for a mass market cigar, it seems that most brands have a hard time increasing the supply to meet that demand while keeping the quality of construction and tobacco high.

Another thing is timing. I feel that there are years when certain cigars are fantastic and others where the product is so so.

I was a fan of RP 1990's 14 years ago but now they just are not that good. Just not a fan of the mass market stuff, doesn't have the flavor and just doesn't get the job done anymore. Thanks Cigar Geeks...you've ruined me.

With that said, once in while, a cheapie will do, La Paulina and certain Kristoff stuff but that is working around the house.
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Cfickter
Posted 1/29/2019 6:52 AM (#762130 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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I feel similar on many of the brands listed, but there are a few pockets of good cigars even in some of the worst brands. take Gurkha, 99.9% crap, but the 15 Year Cellar Reserve (original white label) is actually quite a good cigar. Or Alec Bradley, I haven't had much luck with those the the Fine & Rare is another gem in the brand. Avo's try the Nicaragua or the South America RITMO, both fairly decent.

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arrow34
Posted 1/29/2019 7:43 AM (#762134 - in reply to #762116)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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Deener27 - 1/28/2019 8:35 PM

arrow34 - 1/28/2019 8:00 PM

This is an interesting and very old discussion when it comes to specific brands and tastes. I have had the same experiences with some of the brands listed, but have fallen in love with others from the same brands, different lines. It all comes down to taste and value.
I don't really like Rockies or cohiba red dots, but do like the Dominica and macassar (mood), like some of the montes, but love aj Fernandez sticks, like the aj Fernandez h.upmann, punch Diablo, oliva v mil, Steve Saka's stuff Dunbarton, Foundation Cigar Co.. all a matter of taste.


I feel like this is partially a product of supply and demand as well as sourcing. When demand starts to increase for a mass market cigar, it seems that most brands have a hard time increasing the supply to meet that demand while keeping the quality of construction and tobacco high.

Another thing is timing. I feel that there are years when certain cigars are fantastic and others where the product is so so.

I was a fan of RP 1990's 14 years ago but now they just are not that good. Just not a fan of the mass market stuff, doesn't have the flavor and just doesn't get the job done anymore. Thanks Cigar Geeks...you've ruined me.

With that said, once in while, a cheapie will do, La Paulina and certain Kristoff stuff but that is working around the house.


Oh I agree, especially on the Liga P. , I had smoked a few when they first came out and they were amazing, a year later... still good, but not that good. Oliva V M has kept the quality up, but I cant help but think they will slip too. I have never been a RP fan and have also been smoking better and better cigars over the years. I think in the last 3 years, cigar options have expanded and are more economical. I am not in the camp of Cubans are best! I really like Cubans, but think they are not as good as most think, some are, but just like Dominicans, some are over hyped.

I have a few of the Kristoff lines that I think are amazing and others that are soso. I have to agree that most of the massmarket stuff is underwhelming, but I like the newer stuff as I mentioned earlier.

Another brand that I think doesn't get that much of a spotlight is E.P. Carrillo. Most of his lines are great.
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arrow34
Posted 1/29/2019 7:49 AM (#762135 - in reply to #762130)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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Cfickter - 1/29/2019 6:52 AM

I feel similar on many of the brands listed, but there are a few pockets of good cigars even in some of the worst brands. take Gurkha, 99.9% crap, but the 15 Year Cellar Reserve (original white label) is actually quite a good cigar. Or Alec Bradley, I haven't had much luck with those the the Fine & Rare is another gem in the brand. Avo's try the Nicaragua or the South America RITMO, both fairly decent.




I have to say some of the Gurkha sticks are ok at the right price($2 or $3), but for the most part are over priced and hyped. Alec Bradley on the other hand, I really like the robustos lost art and the tempest. I haven't tried the Fine&Rare yet, but will. I also agree with the AVO Nicaragua and RITMO(must let them rest after transport, atleast a months or two), both were a great release from AVO, most of their other stuff is a bit too bland for me.
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Cigary
Posted 1/29/2019 9:45 AM (#762146 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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This conversation comes up yearly....and over the decades we need to understand that "tastes" change. What we liked/loved 10 years ago changes because of our own change of tastes ( taste buds change like it or not ) and sometimes the crop itself changes enough to lose quality that we used to expect. Are the Brand Manufacturers going to give the public a heads-up on that.....no, they won't because they aren't going to shoot themselves in their feet. Tobacco is not a sure thing in terms of replicating the exact taste .....the formula for production and processing is really good but cloning the "taste"....hate to break it to everybody....it's not an exact science esp. with tobacco. There are too many variables that change the dynamics of "taste" and just like the Rocky Patel challenge over the years.....I only smoke his Edge Maduros....they have stayed pretty consistent thru the years.

Opus is a cigar Ive smoked since the beginning and still love them....they are a bit expensive for good reason...they have stayed in the "sweet spot" for quite a long time because it is planned crop analysis of production and repeating success over and over....that means they don't tinker with the formula like most manufacturers do to sell more cigars with marketing schemes to enhance the brand. That only works for so long until they dilute it enough to cause the consumers to expose them for changing the recipe and thus.....we get these conversations of diluted quality and change.
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nirab
Posted 1/30/2019 3:54 PM (#762202 - in reply to #762146)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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I'm with Daniel and Bruce for the most part. Being in the shop these last 2yrs, I've taken a bit different approach to what I like versus what others do. If it's in your hand, and you like it, then its a good cigar. Every once in a while, a customer will give me a cigar from their humidor, and its usually one I wouldn't reach for. But, I will smoke it...or give it away. I've had a few that were enjoyable when I thought I wouldn't like it much. Overall, I find a lot of the older brands to be bland, yet, I can usually find one cigar in a line that I can enjoy. If I have to tolerate it...then I won't smoke it!
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gitfiddl
Posted 1/30/2019 7:12 PM (#762208 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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I gave up on trying to find a Rocky or Gurkha that I liked, stick to stick Too many marks, and no real consistency stick to stick over time. Some have mentioned Punch, Montecristo and other well-known brands. I like most of them and I usually get what I expect out of one when I light it up. And I have never been let down by anything that had Fuente associated with it. I can say the same about Don Pepin Garcia.

As for Drew Estate, I'll admit to an occasional craving for a Kuba Kuba, Opulence 3, or Tabak Especial, but his other stuff didn't/doesn't knock my socks off.

One of my pet peeves in the cigar industry is the departure from gentlemanly names for cigars. Holt's always had their kind of humorous names for budget cigars, and that was okay, I guess. DE's Acid was borderline okay by me because the cigars are very different. But My Uzi Weighs a Ton (MUWAT)? Not for me. General Cigar/Punch let me down with the names Bareknuckle and Uppercut (although I like the cigars) and RyJ changed come of their labels. Now it looks like Partagas is doing the same. Now we've got names like Asylum Schizo, CroMagon, Cult Conspiracy... What's next? Someone Screwed My Goat? Tried the new 18x180ring Horse Humper Gordo yet?
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junglepete
Posted 1/30/2019 7:32 PM (#762210 - in reply to #762208)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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gitfiddl - 1/30/2019 7:12 PM

I gave up on trying to find a Rocky or Gurkha that I liked, stick to stick Too many marks, and no real consistency stick to stick over time. Some have mentioned Punch, Montecristo and other well-known brands. I like most of them and I usually get what I expect out of one when I light it up. And I have never been let down by anything that had Fuente associated with it. I can say the same about Don Pepin Garcia.

As for Drew Estate, I'll admit to an occasional craving for a Kuba Kuba, Opulence 3, or Tabak Especial, but his other stuff didn't/doesn't knock my socks off.

One of my pet peeves in the cigar industry is the departure from gentlemanly names for cigars. Holt's always had their kind of humorous names for budget cigars, and that was okay, I guess. DE's Acid was borderline okay by me because the cigars are very different. But My Uzi Weighs a Ton (MUWAT)? Not for me. General Cigar/Punch let me down with the names Bareknuckle and Uppercut (although I like the cigars) and RyJ changed come of their labels. Now it looks like Partagas is doing the same. Now we've got names like Asylum Schizo, CroMagon, Cult Conspiracy... What's next? Someone Screwed My Goat? Tried the new 18x180ring Horse Humper Gordo yet?


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arrow34
Posted 1/31/2019 5:49 AM (#762218 - in reply to #762208)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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gitfiddl - 1/30/2019 7:12 PM

I gave up on trying to find a Rocky or Gurkha that I liked, stick to stick Too many marks, and no real consistency stick to stick over time. Some have mentioned Punch, Montecristo and other well-known brands. I like most of them and I usually get what I expect out of one when I light it up. And I have never been let down by anything that had Fuente associated with it. I can say the same about Don Pepin Garcia.

As for Drew Estate, I'll admit to an occasional craving for a Kuba Kuba, Opulence 3, or Tabak Especial, but his other stuff didn't/doesn't knock my socks off.

One of my pet peeves in the cigar industry is the departure from gentlemanly names for cigars. Holt's always had their kind of humorous names for budget cigars, and that was okay, I guess. DE's Acid was borderline okay by me because the cigars are very different. But My Uzi Weighs a Ton (MUWAT)? Not for me. General Cigar/Punch let me down with the names Bareknuckle and Uppercut (although I like the cigars) and RyJ changed come of their labels. Now it looks like Partagas is doing the same. Now we've got names like Asylum Schizo, CroMagon, Cult Conspiracy... What's next? Someone Screwed My Goat? Tried the new 18x180ring Horse Humper Gordo yet?
[/QUOTE

I think cigar companies should hire you to name their new sticks!! If they didn't name some of the new 70+ ring gauge cigars horse humper, you might want to copyright that.1
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Beegerply
Posted 1/31/2019 7:23 AM (#762221 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: RE: Brands that I just don't "get"



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Brian (Nirab) I would agree with your statement with what's in my hand is what I like. I use that line all the time when I go into a B&M and they ask me what I like and I always respond by saying what ever is in my hand. If you like it smoke it plan and simple. About the only cigar brand I don't care for is Gurka never really cared for them at all.
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sar127
Posted 2/1/2019 7:54 PM (#762266 - in reply to #762085)
Subject: Re: Brands that I just don't "get"



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I think it's important to note a very important distinction during these types of conversations.



There's a big difference between cigar you don't enjoy the flavor of, and a poorly made cigar altogether.



As a newb I was completely unable to make that distinction, understandably. But in trying to understand my friends palettes better, I've learned to appreciate an extremely well made cigar for what they are without them being completely in my wheelhouse. That in turn has also helped widen my palette overall, which came as a pleasant surprise.
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