Ok... I just wanted to see what others think.  IMHO... I think this is BS...  but here we go.

I was on Cbids forum, just lurking and read this.

"I haven't had any recent ones, but when they came out I thought there were a good value for a buy at the local B&M.

So take that with a grain of salt because they weren't fake internet cigars." - this was in this thread http://www.cigarbid.com/Forum/c/posts/659033/Nica-Rustica-by-Drew-Estate-opinions

I personally not a fan of Nica Rustica(they are just ok in my book),  but the reference to fake internet cigars was what I was referring to.

a response to was put to that reference -
"Y'know, for years I've heard rumors about that sort of thing... B&M cigars being different from, and better than, the supposedly same exact cigars from internet retailers, particularly large internet retailers with lots of resources and clout.... but I have never seen any hard proof."

(which I agree)

a response  was - "Pick up some Avo Synchro's from a b&m and then buy a couple at that other place that's now owned by this place.... Proof... "

????  Maybe my rant doesn't make sense to some, but to spread rumors that cigars that are purchased online vs in store are different...  I call BS.  I have had AVO syncro from both a b&m and from internet sources... same thing.  But that is me...  I could understand with Cubans, counterfeits are common, but really. avos or other brands?

Agreed.  Sounds like somebody that either works at a B&M and wants to justify why they are better or one of these guys that reviews cigars and tastes the virgin farts of unicorns to start and it transitions to moldy beets and chocolate.  Sometimes these guys crack me up with their elitist attitude towards a hobby that is anchored in relaxation and socializing.

In fact, a lot of B&Ms I would venture to say that while nothing to do with the blend, they keep such poor care of their humidor the internet cigars come in better shape than the moldy or dust dry sticks from some of these B&Ms.  Not against a good B&M, there are some fantastic ones.  But I have been in some that really are sad.

In fairness of course there are some B&M exclusive blends, and there are examples of sticks that were offered in stores then the blend was changed to go cheaper and thrown on the online sites at a huge discount to just capitalize on the name.  But the vast, vast majority of cigars sold are the same blend no matter where you buy them.

The debate has been around for decades as far as "authenticity" is concerned over product.  Online Vendors are like any other business as they either have the real deal or they go out of business...same with B&M's.  KNOW YOUR VENDOR is always the period at the end of the sentence.  Veterans know their cigars best....newbs can be fooled because of the lack of experience with product and until they become knowledgeable they will come to understand what is "faux" and what isn't.  

I'd hate to see a reputable business get slammed just because some hobbyist "thought" they were smoking an inferior brand/grade of cigar without really knowing what they are talking about.  Online sales and businesses just like B&M's are good for all of us...just don't take the bait from places that don't have good reputation that are online start-ups....vet them and see what their policy is as some will market them and advertise ridiculous pricing that just doesn't fit .....most Manufacturers will not allow businesses to sell at agreed upon contracts.  At the end of the day read the policy where they have a warranty as to quality...or returns and always use a good Credit Card in case of a dispute for bad product.

Only thing I can think of, in regards to that line of thinking, is that some cigars are mistreated in the internet sales process.  Either bad warehouse storage by internet vendors, or just mishaps during shipping, can definitely impact the cigar negatively.

I've had and Undercrown from the B&M and and was impressed.  Ordered some off CBid, and they ended up with wrappers falling apart and cracking.  Different cigars from the start?  Nope, just different storage conditions, and more shipping and mishandling of the internet ones.

QuoteAdwinistrator - 3/11/2019  10:09 AM  Only thing I can think of, in regards to that line of thinking, is that some cigars are mistreated in the internet sales process.  Either bad warehouse storage by internet vendors, or just mishaps during shipping, can definitely impact the cigar negatively.  I've had and Undercrown from the B&M and and was impressed.  Ordered some off CBid, and they ended up with wrappers falling apart and cracking.  Different cigars from the start?  Nope, just different storage conditions, and more shipping and mishandling of the internet ones.

X2 on this.  The online vs B&M probably has more to do with treatment of cigars. 

If someone bought cigars online, they may have traveled in a plane or a hot mail truck and went from a place that was 30 degrees to a place that was 95 degrees on their journey to get to their destination.  Did that person tear open the box, smoke one right away, and declare them a knock off compared to the same cigar that has been sitting in a well maintained B&M's humidor for a few weeks? Of course there would be no surprise of the acclimated well cared for cigar smoked better than the one right off the truck.

I agree with all of the point made so far.  I a have had the same experience with the undercrown maduros btw... lol Same source cbid... They must be sensitive to changes.  After a few months in the humidor they tend to be fine.  I did have one pretty much blow parts, but that was a fluke.(ruined my cigar experience though)

Quotearrow34 - 3/11/2019  10:34 AM

I agree with all of the point made so far.  I a have had the same experience with the undercrown maduros btw... lol Same source cbid... They must be sensitive to changes.  After a few months in the humidor they tend to be fine.  I did have one pretty much blow parts, but that was a fluke.(ruined my cigar experience though)

That is too funny.  I was trying to glue mine back together as they were falling apart mid smoke, lol.  Something definitely went wrong with the storage of those sticks while CBid had them.

QuoteAdwinistrator - 3/11/2019  10:45 AM  

Quotearrow34 - 3/11/2019  10:34 AM  I agree with all of the point made so far.  I a have had the same experience with the undercrown maduros btw... lol Same source cbid… They must be sensitive to changes.  After a few months in the humidor they tend to be fine.  I did have one pretty much blow parts, but that was a fluke.(ruined my cigar experience though)

That is too funny.  I was trying to glue mine back together as they were falling apart mid smoke, lol.  Something definitely went wrong with the storage of those sticks while CBid had them.

 I would think most would agree that DE quality has fallen since the purchase by Swisher.  And I avoid getting cigars from cBid for a number of reasons.  Earlier comments are right.  I see B&Ms who's management of their humidor is horrible.  I think the worst case was a local cigar lounge that had a basic stand up cabinet with an Oasis.  The bartender noticed the humidity was low and proceeded to take a spray bottle of warm tap water and "mist' the inside.

QuoteCfickter - 3/11/2019  11:03 AM

QuoteAdwinistrator - 3/11/2019  10:45 AM  

Quotearrow34 - 3/11/2019  10:34 AM  I agree with all of the point made so far.  I a have had the same experience with the undercrown maduros btw... lol Same source cbid... They must be sensitive to changes.  After a few months in the humidor they tend to be fine.  I did have one pretty much blow parts, but that was a fluke.(ruined my cigar experience though)

That is too funny.  I was trying to glue mine back together as they were falling apart mid smoke, lol.  Something definitely went wrong with the storage of those sticks while CBid had them.

 I would think most would agree that DE quality has fallen since the purchase by Swisher.  And I avoid getting cigars from cBid for a number of reasons.  Earlier comments are right.  I see B&Ms who's management of their humidor is horrible.  I think the worst case was a local cigar lounge that had a basic stand up cabinet with an Oasis.  The bartender noticed the humidity was low and proceeded to take a spray bottle of warm tap water and "mist' the inside.

QuoteCfickter - 3/11/2019  10:03 AM

QuoteAdwinistrator - 3/11/2019  10:45 AM  

Quotearrow34 - 3/11/2019  10:34 AM  I agree with all of the point made so far.  I a have had the same experience with the undercrown maduros btw... lol Same source cbid... They must be sensitive to changes.  After a few months in the humidor they tend to be fine.  I did have one pretty much blow parts, but that was a fluke.(ruined my cigar experience though)

That is too funny.  I was trying to glue mine back together as they were falling apart mid smoke, lol.  Something definitely went wrong with the storage of those sticks while CBid had them.

 I would think most would agree that DE quality has fallen since the purchase by Swisher.  And I avoid getting cigars from cBid for a number of reasons.  Earlier comments are right.  I see B&Ms who's management of their humidor is horrible.  I think the worst case was a local cigar lounge that had a basic stand up cabinet with an Oasis.  The bartender noticed the humidity was low and proceeded to take a spray bottle of warm tap water and "mist' the inside.

Wow that is bad...  The worst I ever saw(handling wise) was in Cabo San lucas at the airport, they had Cubans in the window of the cabo wabo giftshop un sealed and they had blown up, latterly split and looked awful.  Made me tear up...  My wife(gf at the time) said don't you want to go in and look at the cigars?  I said... nope I am good.


As far as buying from cbid, here are many sticks I have gotten off of there that have been fine and also I can get them for a cheaper price anywhere, like steve saka's sticks.  The sobremesa short torpedo and mi querida sticks can be had for a reasonable price.  Otherwise... nope.

Since working in the shop, I have not purchased online. Although there are some great deals online, it is important to support the shops that do have a well cared for, and well stocked humidor. As such, I find that I can match most of the online deals. Not all, but most. The online retailers entice with free lighters, or a deal on adding a 5pk. I use geek math for our deals...just sayin'!

Quotenirab - 3/11/2019  5:43 PM

Since working in the shop, I have not purchased online. Although there are some great deals online, it is important to support the shops that do have a well cared for, and well stocked humidor. As such, I find that I can match most of the online deals. Not all, but most. The online retailers entice with free lighters, or a deal on adding a 5pk. I use geek math for our deals...just sayin'!

Hey Nirab - I am not saying to not support local shops!  Just saying the rumors of saying that there is inferior quality online.  I support local all the time with singles and 5-packs.  I just do the bulk of my ordering online.  If I had a local shop that matched most of the deal I could get online, that would rock!  But they don't.

Quotearrow34 - 3/11/2019  7:49 PM

Quotenirab - 3/11/2019  5:43 PM

Since working in the shop, I have not purchased online. Although there are some great deals online, it is important to support the shops that do have a well cared for, and well stocked humidor. As such, I find that I can match most of the online deals. Not all, but most. The online retailers entice with free lighters, or a deal on adding a 5pk. I use geek math for our deals...just sayin'!

Hey Nirab - I am not saying to not support local shops!  Just saying the rumors of saying that there is inferior quality online.  I support local all the time with singles and 5-packs.  I just do the bulk of my ordering online.  If I had a local shop that matched most of the deal I could get online, that would rock!  But they don't.

arrow34...not implied...just added my two cents...

I'm not sure how long the CI/Cigars.com consortium (which now includes PipesandCigars.com) has been around and what their history is, but Thompson and Holt's have been around for over a century, Famous for 75+ years,  Some of the smaller folks like Finck pass the century mark and JR goes back to 1970 or so.  I'm not sure how long Cuban Crafters has been around.  Mike's Cigars has been around since 1950.  Every stinking one has a B&M operation predating the internet.  I doubt very seriously that they sort the cigars in storage according to "end sales method", and all profess to have their own humidor warehouses.

And if I remember correctly, a long time ago in a CG galaxy far away, didn't a certain former(?) Geek who may or may not have been known as Podman start up an internet store where most of his company's orders were filled by Cuban Crafters?

My point is I can't see a major cigar manufacturer making two different cigars (one for internet sales. one for B&M sales) with the same label?  

Having typed that, however, it does raise another question:  Is the, say for example, Fuente Hemingway Short Story I bought in a 5-pk the same cigar I'd have received if I bought a box?
   

I don't have the experience that you gentleman have and being very limited in my ability to get out most of my purchases are done online and I have gotten much of my info about online vendors and recommendations from the good folks here. I have been fortunate to have not had any bad experiences thus far. Not knowing how the various vendors store their inventory a practice I got into early on, also based on advice I got here, is any cigars I get go into my humidor for at least 30 days before I'll smoke them. I loved Michaels comment regarding the elitist gasbags that try to ruin a pastime that as Michael so eloquently put it is centered around relaxation and socializing.

I like to get singles at the B&M to try stuff, You get to look at it and see what you are getting before you buy, but, sadly if I am purchasing in box quantities I will buy at an online source with the best price, mostly because I am a cheap bastich and if I can save 15 or 20 buck's on a box I am gonna save it. I have other thing's I can spend it on. Of course sometimes the B&M has the best price on the box and I go there and I never notice any difference in quality or flavor no matter where they come from. Just saying, I think it's all a hoax.

Supporting local shops is very important.  fortunately here in western PA we have a lot of them but what I find is quite a few of the brands I like (Roma Craft, Dunbarton, Flatbed) are not usually carried in those shops so I buy those on-line and try to support the local B&Ms with other lines.  I understand that shelf space is limited so that regulates what is available along with what sells.
I don't see a difference in quality, have had bad at both the B&M and On-line

Quotenirab - 3/11/2019  9:43 PM

Since working in the shop, I have not purchased online. Although there are some great deals online, it is important to support the shops that do have a well cared for, and well stocked humidor. As such, I find that I can match most of the online deals. Not all, but most. The online retailers entice with free lighters, or a deal on adding a 5pk. I use geek math for our deals...just sayin'!

Brian you have become my new "online" shop!   :)

Having read the attached thread, I think it has been a very long cold winter for some folks, and are occupying their time writing BS in a forum.  

I personally like the Nica Rustica for an every day around the house cigar.  And while I do agree to an extent about some DE cigars not being the same as the ones of old, they still make a damn good cigar.  I had a #9 corona gorda (new size) recently in West Palm that was loaded with flavor

I agree...  As for versions of lines, sticks will change with time, stores of blends run out and have to use new crops.  They come as close as they can.  One I can point to and say aren't the same, are E.P. Carrillo Dark rituals.  The new ones just aren't the same :(

Quotearrow34 - 3/12/2019  9:48 AM

I agree...  As for versions of lines, sticks will change with time, stores of blends run out and have to use new crops.  They come as close as they can.  One I can point to and say aren't the same, are E.P. Carrillo Dark rituals.  The new ones just aren't the same :(

Well that one was an example of an online company exploiting a popular blend.  They didn't even profess it to be the same blend, just used to name because people loved the original DR.  Gurkha has been famous for this practice.  Padilla has re-released the 1932 blend a couple times and the last was just in name only.

That is one thing that really burns me.  I can deal with blends changing over time.  It is a handmade, natural product and there are going to be variances.  But when they slap a previous name on it just for name recognition, you should know out of the gate that it is a gimmick.....

Interesting thread and good topic of conversation.   I support local B&Ms with a few individual purchases and more especially if I hang out in their lounge.  But at the same time, I also buy online from reputable dealers (Holt's / CI etc) for quantity because the B&M simply can not match the prices (at least the ones local to me)

I agree, why not name it something different.  Or atleast say in the spirit of xxx.  This new blend will make you forget about the prior one. etc.  But that is usually not the case.  That is why i appreciate new sticks and the new blends that have come out, vs the tired older ones that keep getting reintroduced.

Gotta say the punch diablo knocked my socks off.

Good thread and good thoughts all around. For the most part I have not been able to tell any difference between BM and online retailer's cigars. Not that I buy a whole lot from BM retailers but occasionally I do purchase something when I am touristing. One time I bought a ten pack of Montecristo Montes (not the Montecristo AJF Montes) from CP and 8 of the ten were terribly plugged.

I agree that it would be cool if the labels of every cigar had a very small print on it identifying the year of the crop.

I've only been smoking for ~6 years, so this is just assumption on my part...

When you order from online retailers, the likelihood of getting cigars "fresh" is much higher. All about inventory rollover to keep costs down and pass on savings. B&M's are more likely to have cigars that have been nicely simmering a while.

The only non-ISOM I buy these day are Arturo Fuente from B&M. 1 box of Casa Fuente every year from Vegas and 1 box of Hemingway Maduros from my local B&M (got a box of BTL this year too). Will open them 5 years later. My local B&M also tends to have older stock available too. I only go once or twice a year, but last time I was there they still had some TAA from '12.

Age is everything for me, and I'd buy from a well maintained B&M for smoking soon and online only if I planned on resting a few years or more.