This is a blurb put up on Cigarpage.com to support a no name brand cigar they are selling

"Why do some good cigars cost so much – and why so much variation in costs between blends? The answer, which may be obvious, is brand name. I'll acknowledge there's some art to cigar making but at this day in age the production itself is more science. Established, accepted processes for growing tobacco, fermentation and pre-industry, and cigar production are more uniformly followed than at any point in history. Innovations are only incremental at this point, as fewer barriers exist with less hidden knowledge than ever before. So any factory that wants to meet the threshold of making quality cigars can.
To make an analogy: there are some objectively bad or inexperienced micro-breweries (not simply makers of beer that doesn't suit your taste). But these low quality brewers don't last. Meanwhile quality brewpubs and craft brewers are ubiquitous and you'll from them in every town from Dubuque, IA to Tampa FL to Oxford, MS to Albany, NY. Likewise, there are bad or inexperienced cigar makers, corner-cutters, or factories who choose to specialize in cheap cigars for the "barely premium" value market. Set those aside for a minute. For the rest, with any volume it costs a dime more at the factory level to make a good premium vs. basic handmade....which after taxes landed in the states call it a 20-cent difference. With each additional cent of cost put into the production of a cigar, there's a quickly diminishing - if not vanishing - incremental increase in quality.
Back to cost, why is it $10, $12 or more a cigar on the shelf? 75-cents might be import taxes and shipping cost. There are middlemen markups. There is often pricing policies where brands mandate that retailers double the price. There are also sales taxes. But mainly, some brands can simply command more – as they count on their marketing spending to capture that premium price, not because it's any better. These brands often pay retailers co-op and other fees for placement in their store. These costs and markups are all passed to you, and what you get in return is zero. Hence the old saw: "what's the difference between a $2 cigar and a $12 cigar?" Answer: "10 bucks."

Of course I agree~!  We use only the finest "A" quality tobaccos like the "big guys" and yet even with a budget price it's tough to get any recognition without seriously expensive marketing. Hype sells cigars~!

My experience is relatively limited, but completely agree.  I've smoked enough $10+ sticks (according to the DB as I didn't pay that much for most of them) that didn't smoke worth a damn and tasted bad along with plenty of so-called "budget" sticks in the $2-3 range or even less that smoked and tasted great to get the general impression that I don't need to spend very much to smoke a nice stick.

Makes sense. Marketing makes the price go up. Interesting parallel between craft beer and premium cigars.

I have yet to find a high price cigar that blows my skirt up. Not that I'm an expert or anything but like tuck said there are some great cigars out there that very good to smoke. So I would agree Pete. Just my .02 worth.  

While I wholeheartedly agree that "hype" sells cigars.  (Just look at Gurkha) And that Brand Name can considerably add to the price.  I don't think it is as simple as that.  

One thing that I find in some more expensive cigars is a smoothness that rarely comes in an inexpensive cigar.  If the inexpensive cigar is smooth, the flavor is weak and or the strength is weak/mild.  I generally find a slight harshness or less refined smole.  

Consider the Undercrowns vs. the #9's.  I love the Undercrowns, but the #9 ruined me on them...lol.  

Consider 5Vegas.  I think they make a great cigar at a small price point.  I would recommend them to anyone.  But would anyone tell me they would rather have a 5Vegas Maduro over an Arturo Fuente Chateau or 858???  

The quote mentioned that Production is more science now.  Well that is true to the point of consistency.  Consistency in quality, flavor, construction.  But the blend is still an artform.  And it is the most important part.

Cigars tie up a huge amount of money for a long time, and I will always expect cigars that are well aged and have fragile or more expensive wrapper leaf to cost more.  The longer the cigar is aged, the longer its cash sitting on the cold room/aging room shelf.  While production costs don't vary that much, leaf selection (and cost) vary dramatically and aging the inventory will tie up huge amounts of cash, causing higher markups a must for manufacturers that focus on aging their cigars properly.

I think that is more of an ad justifying why to participate in today's sale.

That being said, I am certainly not a believer that you can't make a good stick for an affordable price.  I enjoy the full range from smokes that I find are a great deal for the money to "luxury" smokes.  It comes down to I smoke what I like.  As Daniel pointed out, there are cost differences in certain leaves due to availability (or lack thereof), age, region, etc.  There are also differences in labor costs, factories and/or tenured rollers that would factor in as well.  Marketing and cache are certainly big factors.  We all know the big boys make their living off of the casual smokers walking in and recognizing Cohiba, Romeo Y Julieta, and Montecristo and buying based on the name.  To me that shows that the little guys are making their name through putting out quality smokes and getting their word out through the cigar community in order to make it.  They are making something that is different and presumably better, or we would all be buying $2 bundle smokes and have nothing to talk about on here.  

I admit it, I fall for looks sometimes.  I find myself drawn to certain releases by looks or hype.  Now I don't stay around if they disappoint, but I won't lie and say I have never been drawn to a cigar because it looks cool or like something I want to try.

I have had $25 cigars both wow me and disappoint me.  I have had $4 cigars do the same.  To me, there does seem to be a sweet spot in that $10-15 MSRP that more often than not consistently delivers quality tobacco as well as quality construction.  All the better when you can grab some of those at a significant discount.

So I guess I would say that I disagree with the statement, but there is some validity to it.  I just don't think you can make a blanket statement that due to science even these bundle smokes should taste the same as an Opus X.  Again, as we have all said so many times, the most important part of this hobby is to smoke what you like and like what you smoke.  If you truly like and enjoy a $100 Cuban Cohiba LE and that justifies the spend for you, then nobody can tell you that you are wrong.  Conversly, if you have a cooler full of $2 seconds and to you they taste the same and it makes you happy to smoke good cigars and save the money, you too are correct!  That is the great thing about this hobby.  Literaly thousands of choices out there to smoke and you are not required to like or dislike any particular one of them.

A friend smokes Quorum's as a go to cigar.  He has the availability to smoke whatever he wants.  Maybe that is one reason he has $.  I gave him a Nica Rustica once, now you see him with one ever once in awhile.  

I don't buy seconds, you never know if the one you are getting to light will be a good one..... or not

I enjoy an occasional premium cigar or 3, but smoke average every day cigars for the norm.

Is there such a thing as a good $2 cigar at msrp?

I just took another Percocet....what was the quesion?

QuoteStogieDad - 12/16/2019  11:52 AM

So I guess I would say that I disagree with the statement, but there is some validity to it.  I just don't think you can make a blanket statement that due to science even these bundle smokes should taste the same as an Opus X.  Again, as we have all said so many times, the most important part of this hobby is to smoke what you like and like what you smoke.  If you truly like and enjoy a $100 Cuban Cohiba LE and that justifies the spend for you, then nobody can tell you that you are wrong.  Conversly, if you have a cooler full of $2 seconds and to you they taste the same and it makes you happy to smoke good cigars and save the money, you too are correct!  That is the great thing about this hobby.  Literaly thousands of choices out there to smoke and you are not required to like or dislike any particular one of them.

I second StogieDad's post.

While I do feel there is a lot of markup based on brand, marketing, and hype, I do think there is a very big difference between cheaply made cigars and those created with a great attention to detail and quality.

Whether it's because it was rolled at a great factory, QA controlled by conscientious ownership, aged for years at the farm or post production, or blended by someone who does it better for your tastes, there are reasons that justify the price.

Are there cigars made more expensively that are not as "good" as less expensive sticks?  Of course!  But if you are going to argue that a Padron's price is all marketing hype, I'm going to question if you understand what goes into the production behind those cigars...

Half of the cigars I have are seconds without labels. Before I light a cigar, I remove the label.  The number one priority for a cigar I smoke is flavor. As long as the cigar smokes reasonably, construction isn't a big issue. I buy a lot of Oliva seconds and My Father seconds. I don't make blind purchases of seconds or overruns any more because I can buy overruns knowing what I  am getting. MSRP and regular price don't mean anything. I ask myself how much am I willing to spend for a particular cigar and wait until I can buy it at that price. I really hate the fluffing up the price on samplers to make the deal look good; toss in a few Cohibas or Gurkhas

Quotesweatsock - 12/16/2019  8:30 PM

Half of the cigars I have are seconds without labels. Before I light a cigar, I remove the label.  The number one priority for a cigar I smoke is flavor. As long as the cigar smokes reasonably, construction isn't a big issue. I buy a lot of Oliva seconds and My Father seconds. I don't make blind purchases of seconds or overruns any more because I can buy overruns knowing what I  am getting. MSRP and regular price don't mean anything. I ask myself how much am I willing to spend for a particular cigar and wait until I can buy it at that price. I really hate the fluffing up the price on samplers to make the deal look good; toss in a few Cohibas or Gurkhas

I have to disagree with most of your post.  Construction is as important as flavor.  I dont like lighting / smoking a cigar that has a horrible burn, tunnel plugged etc.  It ruins the whole smoking experience.  I have been known to let them go and get another cigar.  Throwing a Gurkha into a sampler only makes it less appealing, I dont buy samplers for the norm to eliminate the cigars I probably wont smoke anyway.  I would rather smoke one really good cigar than go through 3 shyt cigars and be disappointed.  MSRP and regular price do mean something IF you buy from your B&M, it is close to what you will pay.  

sorry for being negative, just my $.02 .  Typing one handed sucks and I need another percocet

I think some people get as much pleasure from the "deal" aspect of the hobby as others do the smoking aspect.  And if so that is cool.  Seconds or screaming deals on a $8-10 "MSRP" stick for $2.50 is what blows up their skirt.  Smoke what you like, like what you smoke.

I personally love a good deal, but it has to be on something I want.  I won't just buy something to have around, but if it is something I want and fall upon a good deal, that is fun to me, I have to say.  The other day when a bunch of us got that half off on God of Fire and some other treats, that was awesome!  But personally, I see most of the latest CigarPage deals and such just as stuff I wouldn't buy anyway, so it doesn't matter if the deal is good or not.  And if I do decide there is something I want, I always search sites and coupon codes to get the best deal.  There are really only a few sites I consistently use, but that's because they have good prices and good customer service.  I say all that to say that I do understand the aspect of "deal hunting" in the hobby.

QuoteDonM - 12/17/2019  8:38 AM

Quotesweatsock - 12/16/2019  8:30 PM

Half of the cigars I have are seconds without labels. Before I light a cigar, I remove the label.  The number one priority for a cigar I smoke is flavor. As long as the cigar smokes reasonably, construction isn't a big issue. I buy a lot of Oliva seconds and My Father seconds. I don't make blind purchases of seconds or overruns any more because I can buy overruns knowing what I  am getting. MSRP and regular price don't mean anything. I ask myself how much am I willing to spend for a particular cigar and wait until I can buy it at that price. I really hate the fluffing up the price on samplers to make the deal look good; toss in a few Cohibas or Gurkhas

I have to disagree with most of your post.  Construction is as important as flavor.  I dont like lighting / smoking a cigar that has a horrible burn, tunnel plugged etc.  It ruins the whole smoking experience.  I have been known to let them go and get another cigar.  Throwing a Gurkha into a sampler only makes it less appealing, I dont buy samplers for the norm to eliminate the cigars I probably wont smoke anyway.  I would rather smoke one really good cigar than go through 3 shyt cigars and be disappointed.  MSRP and regular price do mean something IF you buy from your B&M, it is close to what you will pay.

I said " As long as the cigar smokes reasonably, construction isn't a big issue." Plugged cigars or other draw problems get pitched immediately. I can accept some underfilling and uneven burn. My most frequent problem is draw and that is solved by clipping an inch of the foot. This happens with firsts and seconds. I have no reason to buy cigars at a B&M. I'm not a  social smoker.    

sorry for being negative, just my $.02 .  Typing one handed sucks and I need another percocet

sweatsox, you do in fact have a reason to frequent B&M's, if not for social reasons, to keep them open!  Ghettomart has closed alot of Ma and Pa B&M's of general merchandise as an example.  IF present legislation eliminates internet sales of cigars ( let us hope it doesnt happen ), and the B&M that you didn't go to closes because you and others don't support them, where are you going to get your cigars?  

Last post for me on this one as I have strayed from the original subject.  What is new?  The percocet kicked in.....

Smoking for me is a hobby not an addiction. If I had to pay B&M prices with state tobacco taxes I would smoke what I have and then stop. Cigar shops can do without my business. The ones that are left have survived the internet because of their business model. There are fewer cigar smokers and virtually no place left to smoke. I can smoke without bothering others and am not regulated by a homeowners association or apartment/towhouse/condo rules.

Quotesweatsock - 12/17/2019  9:08 AM

If I had to pay B&M prices with state tobacco taxes I would smoke what I have and then stop.

Ditto for me.  I really would like to get back to my World of Warcraft addiction (former) at some point, but these sticks are taking up all my time lately...  

I wish I was more well versed in cigar rolling/ making process, I have read a coffee table book moons ago, but without much background into production of cigars I'd hafta say I disagree. I know growers have "special crops" and "special sections" of fields that are reserved for said cigars. I wouldn't throw a blanket statement out there but as the saying goes, "you get what you pay for" now having smoked cigars for some 20 years I can say that "marketing" has become a huge player in the game, and "big brand" sticks are going to cough up to CA and get pages and pages of Ads in there, then yes that cost money which will add up to the total cost, but typically the bigger also have more quality control models put in place, I know I'm missing a lot, but I'd hafta disagree

I think it's relative to the smoker and the cigar producer. If a brand is usually good, Padron, Fuente, Tatuaje etc. then I have more trust in their $20 plus products being worth a try and feel they did in fact use their best aged tobaccos, rollers and are very proud of the blend. If Gurkha comes out with a $20 plus stick, based on past practices, I will assume it is likely BS and a marketing money grab. Some people are good with the entry level Fuente and Padron and don't feel they need a better version of those, which is very smart and a good choice. Some of us want to know what these brands feel is their best stuff and if it is truly a better product so we spend more and try it. If it is a trusted cigar producer (many more than I listed for sure), than the higher end stuff should be better and more costly to produce on many levels from where the tobacco is sourced to final packaging.